1 00:00:36,139 --> 00:00:34,040 this episode of the podcast is brought 2 00:00:38,660 --> 00:00:36,149 to you by audible.com the internet's 3 00:00:41,420 --> 00:00:38,670 leading provider of audiobooks with more 4 00:00:43,459 --> 00:00:41,430 than 60,000 downloadable titles across 5 00:00:46,340 --> 00:00:43,469 all types of literature including 6 00:00:48,380 --> 00:00:46,350 fiction nonfiction and periodicals for 7 00:00:52,430 --> 00:00:48,390 free audio book of your choice go to 8 00:00:55,910 --> 00:00:52,440 audible podcast.com slash para Cass 9 00:00:58,969 --> 00:00:55,920 that's audible podcast.com slash power 10 00:01:00,889 --> 00:00:58,979 cast and now on with the show my special 11 00:01:02,660 --> 00:01:00,899 guest host is christopher o'brien today 12 00:01:05,450 --> 00:01:02,670 we are having what I call the ultimate 13 00:01:07,249 --> 00:01:05,460 abduction Roundtable partly because I'm 14 00:01:09,440 --> 00:01:07,259 an egomaniac and I think if I do 15 00:01:10,820 --> 00:01:09,450 something it should be ultimate but if 16 00:01:13,010 --> 00:01:10,830 you listen to the guest you'll see why 17 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:13,020 we have and this is an alphabetical 18 00:01:18,290 --> 00:01:15,210 order so there's no egos involved Budd 19 00:01:21,070 --> 00:01:18,300 Hopkins dr. David Jacobs and Kevin 20 00:01:24,800 --> 00:01:21,080 Randall and thank you all for joining us 21 00:01:27,680 --> 00:01:24,810 now before we proceed there's been an 22 00:01:30,950 --> 00:01:27,690 online controversy that has flared in 23 00:01:33,710 --> 00:01:30,960 recent weeks about the nature of dr. 24 00:01:35,419 --> 00:01:33,720 Jacobs work with one particular abductee 25 00:01:36,950 --> 00:01:35,429 and we won't mention the name because 26 00:01:38,840 --> 00:01:36,960 the name that's being bandied about 27 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:38,850 online is a pseudonym it's not the 28 00:01:43,550 --> 00:01:41,310 person's real name so we understand that 29 00:01:45,260 --> 00:01:43,560 from the outset and we understand also 30 00:01:47,450 --> 00:01:45,270 there are two sides of every story and 31 00:01:50,510 --> 00:01:47,460 so far we've only heard the other side 32 00:01:53,149 --> 00:01:50,520 okay so dr. Jacobs do you have any 33 00:01:56,539 --> 00:01:53,159 statements or expressions to make about 34 00:01:59,510 --> 00:01:56,549 all this well let me just say that that 35 00:02:00,830 --> 00:01:59,520 in 2020 four years of doing this work 36 00:02:02,149 --> 00:02:00,840 this is the first time anything like 37 00:02:05,060 --> 00:02:02,159 this has ever happened to me 38 00:02:07,609 --> 00:02:05,070 and there is I can assure people who 39 00:02:10,490 --> 00:02:07,619 have been interested in the abduction 40 00:02:13,280 --> 00:02:10,500 phenomenon there is a a very different 41 00:02:15,949 --> 00:02:13,290 side to the story that she presents and 42 00:02:18,949 --> 00:02:15,959 I will be putting something up on my web 43 00:02:20,870 --> 00:02:18,959 site I've determined that's probably the 44 00:02:22,849 --> 00:02:20,880 best thing to do although most mental 45 00:02:25,729 --> 00:02:22,859 health professionals have warned me 46 00:02:28,250 --> 00:02:25,739 against doing that because all that does 47 00:02:32,120 --> 00:02:28,260 is energize her and make her stalk me 48 00:02:34,280 --> 00:02:32,130 even more and her sort of obsessive and 49 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:34,290 stalking behavior has kind of been at 50 00:02:38,520 --> 00:02:36,570 the root of this and so I've been at a 51 00:02:41,850 --> 00:02:38,530 loss as to what to do 52 00:02:44,730 --> 00:02:41,860 but finally I've I have decided to to 53 00:02:46,040 --> 00:02:44,740 respond so I think probably by the time 54 00:02:48,630 --> 00:02:46,050 this show airs there should be a 55 00:02:51,330 --> 00:02:48,640 response on my website and people can 56 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:51,340 can do with it what they please but I 57 00:02:57,110 --> 00:02:53,350 guess that people just know that that 58 00:02:59,580 --> 00:02:57,120 there is a that that is not as clear-cut 59 00:03:02,309 --> 00:02:59,590 I'm not as completely and totally 60 00:03:04,500 --> 00:03:02,319 irresponsible or and and or crazy as she 61 00:03:07,110 --> 00:03:04,510 makes me have to be at least I hope I'm 62 00:03:08,520 --> 00:03:07,120 not well of course I have to say before 63 00:03:10,380 --> 00:03:08,530 we even go on that when it comes to 64 00:03:11,940 --> 00:03:10,390 crazy I resemble that remark and I can 65 00:03:14,880 --> 00:03:11,950 be pretty crazy myself and I guess 66 00:03:16,530 --> 00:03:14,890 before in some ways but now don't want 67 00:03:18,630 --> 00:03:16,540 to involve you but you know the person 68 00:03:26,309 --> 00:03:18,640 involved here too but do you have 69 00:03:29,610 --> 00:03:26,319 anything yes what doctor says no the 70 00:03:35,130 --> 00:03:29,620 word no is I don't know this person 71 00:03:39,720 --> 00:03:35,140 and because the United States and I 72 00:03:43,259 --> 00:03:39,730 never met her but I was a recipient more 73 00:03:48,900 --> 00:03:43,269 lacell the blue years ago of a gigantic 74 00:03:52,229 --> 00:03:48,910 box from her she was sending me data 75 00:03:55,979 --> 00:03:52,239 about her life and I would say that this 76 00:03:57,600 --> 00:03:55,989 box was a almost three feet by a foot 77 00:04:02,400 --> 00:03:57,610 and a half or something like that by a 78 00:04:06,449 --> 00:04:02,410 foot this is huge and I threw the 79 00:04:09,630 --> 00:04:06,459 material and she had recorded every 80 00:04:12,240 --> 00:04:09,640 single change in temperature of her body 81 00:04:17,640 --> 00:04:12,250 and menstrual periods and all the kinds 82 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:17,650 of data about her life and issues 83 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:20,650 physically so there was such a vast 84 00:04:25,920 --> 00:04:23,770 amount that I felt there's something 85 00:04:31,230 --> 00:04:25,930 that I didn't want to get involved with 86 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:31,240 that this was a very needy person and I 87 00:04:36,480 --> 00:04:33,850 wasn't sure of this person's mental 88 00:04:40,200 --> 00:04:36,490 stability and so on emotional stability 89 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:40,210 I should put it and so I got I didn't 90 00:04:45,719 --> 00:04:43,510 get involved with it but I did look 91 00:04:48,300 --> 00:04:45,729 through the material she said originally 92 00:04:49,529 --> 00:04:48,310 it was all sent back to her she wanted 93 00:04:50,230 --> 00:04:49,539 everything shredded or something I 94 00:04:54,879 --> 00:04:50,240 remembered 95 00:04:58,930 --> 00:04:54,889 I simply am aware that this is not a 96 00:05:01,480 --> 00:04:58,940 typical con abductee this is a very 97 00:05:03,610 --> 00:05:01,490 obsessed person about their own 98 00:05:05,980 --> 00:05:03,620 experiences whatever they actually are 99 00:05:07,029 --> 00:05:05,990 okay that's what goes ladies and 100 00:05:09,189 --> 00:05:07,039 gentlemen oh there gonna be a lot of 101 00:05:10,870 --> 00:05:09,199 questions about this later but David 102 00:05:13,390 --> 00:05:10,880 Jacobs says he will have something on 103 00:05:15,969 --> 00:05:13,400 his website about it and let's move on 104 00:05:17,890 --> 00:05:15,979 let's move on to the topic of UFO 105 00:05:19,990 --> 00:05:17,900 abduction is how they're done what we 106 00:05:22,089 --> 00:05:20,000 have learned from them now I don't know 107 00:05:24,760 --> 00:05:22,099 who wants to take this but feel free to 108 00:05:27,370 --> 00:05:24,770 chime in wherever we go now over the 109 00:05:30,279 --> 00:05:27,380 years obviously the nature of abduction 110 00:05:32,830 --> 00:05:30,289 research has in and of itself been the 111 00:05:34,930 --> 00:05:32,840 source of some degree of discussion 112 00:05:37,629 --> 00:05:34,940 controversy whatever and I know you 113 00:05:39,249 --> 00:05:37,639 Kevin Randle have had concerns and maybe 114 00:05:41,980 --> 00:05:39,259 we should voice those concerns to kind 115 00:05:43,960 --> 00:05:41,990 of bring them up into the open and try 116 00:05:46,570 --> 00:05:43,970 to explain why things are done the same 117 00:05:49,450 --> 00:05:46,580 way or different ways so Kevin what are 118 00:05:51,670 --> 00:05:49,460 your concerns we have a doctor research 119 00:05:53,140 --> 00:05:51,680 going back into the 1960s we have Betty 120 00:05:55,360 --> 00:05:53,150 and Barney Hill of course we've had 121 00:05:57,159 --> 00:05:55,370 lesser amounts in the 70s and of course 122 00:05:59,080 --> 00:05:57,169 of all kind of exploded news nineties 123 00:06:00,670 --> 00:05:59,090 things I mean the abduction research 124 00:06:02,020 --> 00:06:00,680 hasn't changed at all we haven't learned 125 00:06:04,719 --> 00:06:02,030 anything from the research that we've 126 00:06:06,360 --> 00:06:04,729 been conducting we haven't formulated 127 00:06:08,499 --> 00:06:06,370 new questions we haven't tried to 128 00:06:10,450 --> 00:06:08,509 validate some of the research that has 129 00:06:14,790 --> 00:06:10,460 been done we're doing basic case studies 130 00:06:17,649 --> 00:06:14,800 and that's all we've done in the last 131 00:06:19,480 --> 00:06:17,659 almost from the beginning and I would 132 00:06:21,339 --> 00:06:19,490 like to see it progressed into other 133 00:06:23,649 --> 00:06:21,349 areas other arenas so that we could 134 00:06:26,649 --> 00:06:23,659 learn something more about it there were 135 00:06:29,950 --> 00:06:26,659 questions when lefties bill Cohen I did 136 00:06:32,409 --> 00:06:29,960 our work in the 1990s you know in our 137 00:06:34,089 --> 00:06:32,419 book that that questions weren't being 138 00:06:36,550 --> 00:06:34,099 asked and things that were coming up 139 00:06:38,620 --> 00:06:36,560 what we considered anomalies in the in 140 00:06:40,450 --> 00:06:38,630 the statistical analysis and we thought 141 00:06:43,209 --> 00:06:40,460 that that if we explored some of those 142 00:06:45,610 --> 00:06:43,219 our blood types are some blood types 143 00:06:47,140 --> 00:06:45,620 more prevalent the abduction phenomena 144 00:06:49,689 --> 00:06:47,150 and they are represented in the 145 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:49,699 population our more college-educated 146 00:06:54,490 --> 00:06:52,370 people represented them high school 147 00:06:56,589 --> 00:06:54,500 educated people all sorts of questions 148 00:06:58,719 --> 00:06:56,599 statistical questions about the nature 149 00:07:01,810 --> 00:06:58,729 of the abductee might tell us something 150 00:07:03,670 --> 00:07:01,820 about what's going on and that when some 151 00:07:06,550 --> 00:07:03,680 solutions have been 152 00:07:08,409 --> 00:07:06,560 for part and I stressed that part of the 153 00:07:10,360 --> 00:07:08,419 abduction phenomena sleep paralysis for 154 00:07:12,820 --> 00:07:10,370 example and I know that when it's 155 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:12,830 brought up in in the UFO community and 156 00:07:18,850 --> 00:07:15,710 that's not necessarily we would vada or 157 00:07:23,610 --> 00:07:18,860 or David Jacobs it just as well some 158 00:07:26,650 --> 00:07:23,620 people are awake when they are abducted 159 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:26,660 and my response is yeah there's a 160 00:07:30,460 --> 00:07:28,910 phenomenon known as cataplexy which is 161 00:07:32,469 --> 00:07:30,470 basically sleep paralysis when you're 162 00:07:34,840 --> 00:07:32,479 wide awake but it's always associated 163 00:07:38,950 --> 00:07:34,850 with narcolepsy so the question becomes 164 00:07:40,960 --> 00:07:38,960 are there narcoleptics more prevalent in 165 00:07:42,909 --> 00:07:40,970 the abductee population than in the 166 00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:42,919 general population no one has bothered 167 00:07:46,779 --> 00:07:45,110 to to research that question that might 168 00:07:48,730 --> 00:07:46,789 provide us with a little bit of an 169 00:07:51,610 --> 00:07:48,740 answer not necessarily the whole thing 170 00:07:54,430 --> 00:07:51,620 so we look at all of those sorts of 171 00:07:56,800 --> 00:07:54,440 things that can be done and really 172 00:07:58,990 --> 00:07:56,810 haven't been done from from the very 173 00:08:00,969 --> 00:07:59,000 beginning I was talking to Kathleen 174 00:08:04,890 --> 00:08:00,979 Morgan who is of course the niece of 175 00:08:08,469 --> 00:08:04,900 Betty Hill and I mentioned that the 176 00:08:10,719 --> 00:08:08,479 symptoms of sleep paralysis near the 177 00:08:12,460 --> 00:08:10,729 symptoms of alien abduction and nobody 178 00:08:14,980 --> 00:08:12,470 has really come up with a way of 179 00:08:18,070 --> 00:08:14,990 separating those two populations and 180 00:08:19,659 --> 00:08:18,080 Kathleen Martin said that some of the 181 00:08:21,640 --> 00:08:19,669 plummeting research that she had done 182 00:08:23,830 --> 00:08:21,650 suggest that the abductions are 183 00:08:26,860 --> 00:08:23,840 described in color and sleep paralysis 184 00:08:28,719 --> 00:08:26,870 is described in black and white now I 185 00:08:30,730 --> 00:08:28,729 haven't been able to validate this yet I 186 00:08:33,310 --> 00:08:30,740 haven't had a chance to validate it but 187 00:08:35,350 --> 00:08:33,320 if that is true then we found as 188 00:08:37,240 --> 00:08:35,360 discriminating factor between sleep 189 00:08:39,310 --> 00:08:37,250 paralysis an alien abduction and I think 190 00:08:41,620 --> 00:08:39,320 that's an important area of research to 191 00:08:43,209 --> 00:08:41,630 follow but we don't seem to follow up on 192 00:08:46,590 --> 00:08:43,219 those questions as readily as we should 193 00:08:49,510 --> 00:08:46,600 and I understand it's a question of 194 00:08:51,790 --> 00:08:49,520 financing and time and research 195 00:08:53,650 --> 00:08:51,800 facilities that sort of inhibit what we 196 00:08:55,810 --> 00:08:53,660 want to do an abduction research but 197 00:08:57,519 --> 00:08:55,820 that's that's sort of where I'm coming 198 00:09:00,850 --> 00:08:57,529 from on some of this but you want to 199 00:09:05,560 --> 00:09:00,860 respond to that first of all the problem 200 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:05,570 is a problem of triage people are coming 201 00:09:13,740 --> 00:09:10,610 with experiences which have been to them 202 00:09:16,140 --> 00:09:13,750 let's say very traumatic and they're 203 00:09:18,510 --> 00:09:16,150 feeling quite low 204 00:09:21,500 --> 00:09:18,520 our feeling at the symptoms of 205 00:09:24,390 --> 00:09:21,510 post-traumatic stress the issues that 206 00:09:27,090 --> 00:09:24,400 Kevin Randle been talking about that he 207 00:09:30,840 --> 00:09:27,100 are really focused on exploring 208 00:09:34,610 --> 00:09:30,850 qualities or aspects of the abductee 209 00:09:37,860 --> 00:09:34,620 rather than anything about the 210 00:09:40,290 --> 00:09:37,870 experience itself or the physical 211 00:09:43,560 --> 00:09:40,300 evidence associated yet other witnesses 212 00:09:45,540 --> 00:09:43,570 are connected with society which of 213 00:09:48,750 --> 00:09:45,550 course is something that is much more 214 00:09:51,360 --> 00:09:48,760 important to me because it's Bill see 215 00:09:53,580 --> 00:09:51,370 the case that these things are actual 216 00:09:56,280 --> 00:09:53,590 physical events that really happen in 217 00:10:00,180 --> 00:09:56,290 the real world now I had walked into a 218 00:10:04,290 --> 00:10:00,190 few things such as blood types and have 219 00:10:07,890 --> 00:10:04,300 found no real patterns there whatsoever 220 00:10:10,590 --> 00:10:07,900 I've never heard anybody report that 221 00:10:13,050 --> 00:10:10,600 they were suffering from narcolepsy it's 222 00:10:16,410 --> 00:10:13,060 the kind of thing I suppose one could 223 00:10:18,450 --> 00:10:16,420 ask but not less is fairly rare now the 224 00:10:22,260 --> 00:10:18,460 sleep paralysis issue that he mentioned 225 00:10:24,930 --> 00:10:22,270 is of course really a non-starter in the 226 00:10:27,750 --> 00:10:24,940 abduction field simply because such a 227 00:10:30,690 --> 00:10:27,760 vast number of abductions take place in 228 00:10:33,420 --> 00:10:30,700 daylight with people involved even 229 00:10:35,190 --> 00:10:33,430 witnesses in the few cases but people 230 00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:35,200 are driving in the car with six other 231 00:10:39,720 --> 00:10:37,470 people and they all wonder called 232 00:10:40,560 --> 00:10:39,730 they're calling the same kind of 233 00:10:44,340 --> 00:10:40,570 experience 234 00:10:47,640 --> 00:10:44,350 there's the nature of if you go back to 235 00:10:50,220 --> 00:10:47,650 the hill case and the some of the some 236 00:10:55,470 --> 00:10:50,230 of the early classics Travis Walton and 237 00:10:58,520 --> 00:10:55,480 the yeah all three of those involved 238 00:11:00,930 --> 00:10:58,530 more than two or more people and 239 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:00,940 everybody is wide awake so you know you 240 00:11:08,190 --> 00:11:04,510 know you can't really bring a theory 241 00:11:11,790 --> 00:11:08,200 into this that doesn't even begin to 242 00:11:15,090 --> 00:11:11,800 match the data in the majority of the 243 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:15,100 cases so well I understand this could be 244 00:11:21,900 --> 00:11:18,610 a problem but what happens I remember is 245 00:11:24,780 --> 00:11:21,910 in one case I was dealing with someone 246 00:11:28,030 --> 00:11:24,790 who said it was sleep paralysis and what 247 00:11:30,910 --> 00:11:28,040 happened was the people 248 00:11:32,710 --> 00:11:30,920 for children and at the time this 249 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:32,720 happened they were adults telling me 250 00:11:37,660 --> 00:11:35,810 about it and they were floated out of 251 00:11:40,360 --> 00:11:37,670 window apparently that remember that 252 00:11:42,970 --> 00:11:40,370 consciously but the conscious fact that 253 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:42,980 they were found on the ground away from 254 00:11:49,180 --> 00:11:46,250 the three stories down one lying atop 255 00:11:51,040 --> 00:11:49,190 another and they seemed to be in a sort 256 00:11:53,710 --> 00:11:51,050 of catatonic state they couldn't speak 257 00:11:55,510 --> 00:11:53,720 and were taken to a hospital and checked 258 00:11:57,520 --> 00:11:55,520 out to see what has happened to them or 259 00:12:00,820 --> 00:11:57,530 doctor's office and they were physically 260 00:12:05,020 --> 00:12:00,830 ok it was but the idea that it took them 261 00:12:07,060 --> 00:12:05,030 perhaps a half an hour to 45 minutes to 262 00:12:09,730 --> 00:12:07,070 sort of come out of the state they were 263 00:12:12,790 --> 00:12:09,740 in it's very hard to call something like 264 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:12,800 that sleep paralysis necrosis is almost 265 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:17,450 inevitably a very brief experience and 266 00:12:23,770 --> 00:12:20,930 these abductions and or not I think 267 00:12:26,230 --> 00:12:23,780 we've got to focus on the experience 268 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:26,240 itself rather than concentrating on 269 00:12:30,880 --> 00:12:29,210 shall we say the victim but you see when 270 00:12:33,040 --> 00:12:30,890 you say sleep paralysis is a non-starter 271 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:33,050 you're rejecting that idea out of hand 272 00:12:37,180 --> 00:12:35,210 and three parameters may fit some of the 273 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:37,190 cases and eliminate and eliminate them 274 00:12:41,770 --> 00:12:39,530 from the data pool yeah suggest that 275 00:12:43,770 --> 00:12:41,780 sleep paralysis explains every case of 276 00:12:47,050 --> 00:12:43,780 alien abduction what I'm suggesting is 277 00:12:50,320 --> 00:12:47,060 some case may be maybe sleep paralysis 278 00:12:52,540 --> 00:12:50,330 that's it's just like areas of UFO 279 00:12:55,240 --> 00:12:52,550 phenomena in general that's one 280 00:12:57,670 --> 00:12:55,250 explanation and doesn't explain all 281 00:13:01,540 --> 00:12:57,680 aspects of it if I see a bright light in 282 00:13:03,580 --> 00:13:01,550 the sky at night it might be a meteor it 283 00:13:05,110 --> 00:13:03,590 might not be it might be something else 284 00:13:07,630 --> 00:13:05,120 it might be an airplane with a landing 285 00:13:10,150 --> 00:13:07,640 light on so you can't say well meteors 286 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:10,160 explain all these cases because they 287 00:13:13,840 --> 00:13:11,330 were they were bright lights in the 288 00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:13,850 night sky and and I'm suggesting that 289 00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:15,500 sleep paralysis is something that may 290 00:13:22,960 --> 00:13:17,510 explain some of the cases and when I 291 00:13:27,450 --> 00:13:22,970 suggest we look at the history of the 292 00:13:29,800 --> 00:13:27,460 abductees that comes out from other 293 00:13:32,290 --> 00:13:29,810 abnormalities in the statistical data 294 00:13:34,690 --> 00:13:32,300 micron occur the Center for UFO studies 295 00:13:37,090 --> 00:13:34,700 told me in a preliminary study he had 296 00:13:38,800 --> 00:13:37,100 done that it seemed that left-handed 297 00:13:40,920 --> 00:13:38,810 people were over-represented in the 298 00:13:44,610 --> 00:13:40,930 abductee population I'm in 299 00:13:51,389 --> 00:13:44,620 I'm a leftie my wife's lefty my and so 300 00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:51,399 is President Obama as he abductee I'm 301 00:13:55,970 --> 00:13:53,290 trying to be serious about its object 302 00:13:58,949 --> 00:13:55,980 yes and explain that we have an 303 00:14:01,620 --> 00:13:58,959 abnormality in the deduction population 304 00:14:03,389 --> 00:14:01,630 examined by dr. auditor suggesting there 305 00:14:05,760 --> 00:14:03,399 are more left-handed people than are 306 00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:05,770 normal in the population it might tell 307 00:14:09,420 --> 00:14:06,370 us something 308 00:14:11,220 --> 00:14:09,430 that's the point you know I'm you're 309 00:14:13,410 --> 00:14:11,230 being silly about examine but I 310 00:14:15,690 --> 00:14:13,420 understand the seriousness of this what 311 00:14:18,889 --> 00:14:15,700 differs in terms of a left-handed person 312 00:14:20,670 --> 00:14:18,899 versus a right-handed person etc 313 00:14:23,040 --> 00:14:20,680 significance to it at all 314 00:14:25,230 --> 00:14:23,050 I'm merely suggesting that there may be 315 00:14:26,910 --> 00:14:25,240 something in the statistical analysis 316 00:14:28,710 --> 00:14:26,920 that might explain something about a 317 00:14:33,269 --> 00:14:28,720 portion of the population and provide us 318 00:14:35,190 --> 00:14:33,279 with some useful data it may not one 319 00:14:38,100 --> 00:14:35,200 problem you're talking about here 320 00:14:41,490 --> 00:14:38,110 involves the source of the data now I 321 00:14:44,699 --> 00:14:41,500 don't know where a lot of your gutters 322 00:14:46,769 --> 00:14:44,709 is material because I think it's as far 323 00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:46,779 as I know the question whether 324 00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:49,180 somebody's a right-handed person or 325 00:14:53,760 --> 00:14:51,850 left-handed amongst the abductees when 326 00:14:54,960 --> 00:14:53,770 I'm interviewing them or I think when 327 00:14:57,030 --> 00:14:54,970 other people are interviewing them 328 00:14:59,790 --> 00:14:57,040 that's not a question anybody really 329 00:15:03,420 --> 00:14:59,800 seems to ask of pay attention to so I 330 00:15:06,300 --> 00:15:03,430 just wonder if I've worked with you know 331 00:15:09,750 --> 00:15:06,310 seven or eight hundred people I never 332 00:15:11,430 --> 00:15:09,760 asked a question but seven or eight 333 00:15:14,220 --> 00:15:11,440 hundred people had I asked a question 334 00:15:16,650 --> 00:15:14,230 and had we gotten the left-handed bias 335 00:15:19,890 --> 00:15:16,660 and the in the figures that would be 336 00:15:23,850 --> 00:15:19,900 significant but I'm wondering how larger 337 00:15:26,430 --> 00:15:23,860 the pool at mark is dealing with I'm not 338 00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:26,440 questioning his research abilities but 339 00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:29,770 just as the data pools are kind of hard 340 00:15:39,079 --> 00:15:36,069 [Music] 341 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calm as you know the power 370 00:16:47,120 --> 00:16:44,850 cast is brought to you by audible.com 371 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:47,130 the internet's leading provider of 372 00:16:51,410 --> 00:16:49,410 audiobooks with more than 60 thousand 373 00:16:53,540 --> 00:16:51,420 downloadable titles across all types of 374 00:16:55,970 --> 00:16:53,550 literature and featuring audio versions 375 00:16:58,069 --> 00:16:55,980 of many new york times bestsellers for 376 00:17:00,319 --> 00:16:58,079 listeners of the power cast Audio is 377 00:17:02,840 --> 00:17:00,329 offering a free audiobook to give you a 378 00:17:04,939 --> 00:17:02,850 chance to try out their service one book 379 00:17:07,789 --> 00:17:04,949 to consider for example is above top 380 00:17:08,630 --> 00:17:07,799 secret the world wide UFO cover-up by 381 00:17:12,559 --> 00:17:08,640 Timothy good 382 00:17:14,630 --> 00:17:12,569 guest on the podcast for this book or 383 00:17:25,490 --> 00:17:14,640 another free audio book of your choice 384 00:17:29,720 --> 00:17:27,319 this is Leslie Kane and I'm with the 385 00:17:33,350 --> 00:17:29,730 Coalition for freedom of information and 386 00:17:34,070 --> 00:17:33,360 you are listening to the paragraph what 387 00:17:35,990 --> 00:17:34,080 you have 388 00:17:38,330 --> 00:17:36,000 Christopher O Brien is our special guest 389 00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:38,340 host this is an ultimate abduction 390 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:41,280 roundtable featuring dr. David Jacobs 391 00:17:47,690 --> 00:17:44,250 Kevin Randall Budd Hopkins Kevin you had 392 00:17:51,409 --> 00:17:47,700 a response I was going to say that that 393 00:17:55,220 --> 00:17:51,419 I believe that the dr. rod occurs pool 394 00:17:56,630 --> 00:17:55,230 of subjects was relatively small and I'm 395 00:18:00,380 --> 00:17:56,640 not sure that that it would translate 396 00:18:02,810 --> 00:18:00,390 into the entire depopulation I'm merely 397 00:18:05,360 --> 00:18:02,820 suggesting that there are some areas of 398 00:18:07,070 --> 00:18:05,370 research and I understand what what 399 00:18:10,100 --> 00:18:07,080 public Bud was saying about the 400 00:18:12,230 --> 00:18:10,110 traumatic aspect of this in some cases 401 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:12,240 and that you need to deal with that as 402 00:18:17,990 --> 00:18:15,690 opposed to asking what would be general 403 00:18:20,390 --> 00:18:18,000 research questions in an attempt to 404 00:18:22,130 --> 00:18:20,400 gather the data I understand all of that 405 00:18:23,990 --> 00:18:22,140 I'm merely suggesting that there's may 406 00:18:26,480 --> 00:18:24,000 be areas in which we could we could 407 00:18:28,580 --> 00:18:26,490 search that might tell us a little bit 408 00:18:29,899 --> 00:18:28,590 about the abductee population it might 409 00:18:33,140 --> 00:18:29,909 tell us a little about about the 410 00:18:35,630 --> 00:18:33,150 abduction phenomenon on a whole to 411 00:18:37,700 --> 00:18:35,640 reject information out of hand because 412 00:18:39,919 --> 00:18:37,710 we don't understand the significance of 413 00:18:41,450 --> 00:18:39,929 it seems to me not to be the direction 414 00:18:45,500 --> 00:18:41,460 we want to go we want to understand what 415 00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:45,510 is going on out here and and is a real 416 00:18:49,399 --> 00:18:47,730 physical phenomenon is it something that 417 00:18:52,610 --> 00:18:49,409 is imaginary is it something that's 418 00:18:53,750 --> 00:18:52,620 created in the research laboratories we 419 00:18:56,060 --> 00:18:53,760 need to answer all of those questions 420 00:18:58,120 --> 00:18:56,070 and I understand that there are cases 421 00:19:00,560 --> 00:18:58,130 many many cases where there's multiple 422 00:19:02,779 --> 00:19:00,570 witnesses there's multiple abductions 423 00:19:04,220 --> 00:19:02,789 there's also I know one case very well 424 00:19:06,320 --> 00:19:04,230 and buddy even mentioned this in his 425 00:19:08,750 --> 00:19:06,330 first book of the patty Pat Roach case 426 00:19:10,480 --> 00:19:08,760 from your dream which I now absolutely 427 00:19:12,950 --> 00:19:10,490 convinced is the case of sleep paralysis 428 00:19:14,600 --> 00:19:12,960 given the research that I did on the 429 00:19:17,409 --> 00:19:14,610 case originally and what I understand 430 00:19:20,649 --> 00:19:17,419 about it does that mean that all 431 00:19:23,120 --> 00:19:20,659 abduction cases fall into that category 432 00:19:26,990 --> 00:19:23,130 absolutely not but it's a partial answer 433 00:19:29,510 --> 00:19:27,000 well one thing I'd like to say is this 434 00:19:32,630 --> 00:19:29,520 is question of triage involved in what I 435 00:19:36,259 --> 00:19:32,640 do I don't I do not get involved with 436 00:19:38,810 --> 00:19:36,269 people who are having less 437 00:19:41,269 --> 00:19:38,820 very happy successful life in all 438 00:19:44,320 --> 00:19:41,279 departments and who seemed to be 439 00:19:49,699 --> 00:19:44,330 suffering from no kind of traumatic 440 00:19:51,889 --> 00:19:49,709 after-effects and really just looking 441 00:19:53,719 --> 00:19:51,899 into this to the matter of curiosity so 442 00:19:56,570 --> 00:19:53,729 if I'm working with people essentially 443 00:19:59,359 --> 00:19:56,580 and who feels some sort of damage from 444 00:20:02,029 --> 00:19:59,369 what they've gone through which is the 445 00:20:05,599 --> 00:20:02,039 population that that's the largest 446 00:20:08,569 --> 00:20:05,609 reduce the population and the one I pay 447 00:20:11,180 --> 00:20:08,579 most attention to it's very very hard to 448 00:20:12,769 --> 00:20:11,190 start asking those people questions 449 00:20:16,729 --> 00:20:12,779 about whether their right hand or left 450 00:20:20,239 --> 00:20:16,739 hand and so forth simply because they 451 00:20:23,180 --> 00:20:20,249 feel almost without exception they feel 452 00:20:25,039 --> 00:20:23,190 that somehow or other there's something 453 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:25,049 the matter with them because they had 454 00:20:29,839 --> 00:20:27,450 these experiences that they have been 455 00:20:32,659 --> 00:20:29,849 laughed at and rejected and had problems 456 00:20:34,310 --> 00:20:32,669 with the parents telling them that you 457 00:20:36,769 --> 00:20:34,320 just have a vivid imagination and 458 00:20:39,829 --> 00:20:36,779 whatnot so therefore they're not people 459 00:20:42,379 --> 00:20:39,839 who are willing to sit around and do 460 00:20:44,629 --> 00:20:42,389 questionnaires because of the fact that 461 00:20:47,479 --> 00:20:44,639 they feel that just another way in which 462 00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:47,489 they are being judged so one has to be 463 00:20:54,680 --> 00:20:51,059 extremely careful and sensitive working 464 00:20:58,339 --> 00:20:54,690 with these people not to make the victim 465 00:21:00,169 --> 00:20:58,349 so to speak feel somehow being than he 466 00:21:02,839 --> 00:21:00,179 or she is being victimized even more 467 00:21:05,539 --> 00:21:02,849 well and like role as a therapist as 468 00:21:07,669 --> 00:21:05,549 opposed to a researcher I think I think 469 00:21:11,180 --> 00:21:07,679 that in working with that ducked easy 470 00:21:12,829 --> 00:21:11,190 the the two roles are so intertwined but 471 00:21:15,019 --> 00:21:12,839 I'd like to you know if I may I'd like 472 00:21:17,509 --> 00:21:15,029 to ask Dave Jacobson 473 00:21:20,029 --> 00:21:17,519 if his feeling is is that that one has 474 00:21:24,019 --> 00:21:20,039 to be very cautious about the 475 00:21:27,919 --> 00:21:24,029 questioning of those sort of non-use non 476 00:21:29,239 --> 00:21:27,929 UFO experience types you know I you know 477 00:21:30,499 --> 00:21:29,249 I think it would be handy to know 478 00:21:32,509 --> 00:21:30,509 whether people left-handed or 479 00:21:33,799 --> 00:21:32,519 right-handed in there and I my sense is 480 00:21:35,180 --> 00:21:33,809 that there wasn't a it would make no 481 00:21:36,560 --> 00:21:35,190 difference in there wouldn't be any 482 00:21:38,359 --> 00:21:36,570 difference in the five general 483 00:21:40,369 --> 00:21:38,369 population and the same thing with blood 484 00:21:42,769 --> 00:21:40,379 types and all the rest that stuff when 485 00:21:44,490 --> 00:21:42,779 when people come to me they fill out a 486 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:44,500 questionnaire first and 487 00:21:49,590 --> 00:21:48,010 um if they're having experiences that 488 00:21:51,120 --> 00:21:49,600 appear to be sleep the experiences I 489 00:21:53,270 --> 00:21:51,130 just don't see them I mean I just I'm 490 00:21:56,130 --> 00:21:53,280 not interested in standing all the time 491 00:21:59,040 --> 00:21:56,140 showing how a person is you know is 492 00:22:01,650 --> 00:21:59,050 asleep and then you have a second David 493 00:22:04,320 --> 00:22:01,660 now when you evaluate this to you submit 494 00:22:06,840 --> 00:22:04,330 this to somebody who has training in 495 00:22:10,320 --> 00:22:06,850 psychotherapy or something to look over 496 00:22:14,690 --> 00:22:10,330 cases that may involve other issues no 497 00:22:17,610 --> 00:22:14,700 what I do is they write me a letter 498 00:22:19,350 --> 00:22:17,620 sometimes get back to them I get I've 499 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:19,360 had thousands of people writing me 500 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:21,610 obviously over the years I can't answer 501 00:22:28,370 --> 00:22:25,450 everybody and for people who live around 502 00:22:30,720 --> 00:22:28,380 me and if I'm free and if I my schedule 503 00:22:33,450 --> 00:22:30,730 I'll ask them to fill out the 504 00:22:34,890 --> 00:22:33,460 questionnaire and at that point I come 505 00:22:36,330 --> 00:22:34,900 in - pretty good determination as to 506 00:22:38,190 --> 00:22:36,340 whether they've had the kinds of 507 00:22:40,530 --> 00:22:38,200 experiences that I have that piece of 508 00:22:45,270 --> 00:22:40,540 had before they know that their 509 00:22:48,450 --> 00:22:45,280 abductors or not I then talk with them I 510 00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:48,460 then have them do other tasks for me 511 00:22:51,510 --> 00:22:49,810 that is to say we need a short piece 512 00:22:53,580 --> 00:22:51,520 about the pros and the cons of going 513 00:22:55,590 --> 00:22:53,590 forward with this I talk with them more 514 00:22:58,980 --> 00:22:55,600 we go over their questionnaire by the 515 00:23:01,380 --> 00:22:58,990 time they enter into my home office 516 00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:01,390 I've talked at them for a considerable 517 00:23:05,370 --> 00:23:03,490 length of time and if there are 518 00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:05,380 psychological problems 519 00:23:10,410 --> 00:23:08,410 I tell them right away that they're in 520 00:23:13,830 --> 00:23:10,420 their situation is beyond my area of 521 00:23:16,050 --> 00:23:13,840 expertise and unfortunately every once 522 00:23:19,530 --> 00:23:16,060 in a while someone will slip through 523 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:19,540 it's been it's been rare I must say the 524 00:23:24,090 --> 00:23:21,010 majority the people that I worked with 525 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:24,100 are normal individuals they have no no 526 00:23:30,210 --> 00:23:27,490 serious problems some people I still see 527 00:23:32,970 --> 00:23:30,220 after 20 years they're responsible 528 00:23:36,270 --> 00:23:32,980 adults they're in positions of authority 529 00:23:39,840 --> 00:23:36,280 I've worked at people who have PhDs and 530 00:23:41,850 --> 00:23:39,850 MDS and who are attorneys and people who 531 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:41,860 are high school teachers and college 532 00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:44,410 professors and and people who dropped 533 00:23:48,510 --> 00:23:46,570 out in the ninth grade and and who could 534 00:23:50,960 --> 00:23:48,520 never hold a job properly and everybody 535 00:23:54,289 --> 00:23:51,950 I haven't worked with that many people 536 00:23:56,750 --> 00:23:54,299 have only worked with about a hundred 537 00:24:01,220 --> 00:23:56,760 and fifty but I I do a fairly long 538 00:24:03,529 --> 00:24:01,230 series of sessions with them and I'll 539 00:24:05,960 --> 00:24:03,539 see them for as long as they want in 540 00:24:08,060 --> 00:24:05,970 other words I think they have I take 541 00:24:10,310 --> 00:24:08,070 them on so to speak and I can see them 542 00:24:12,620 --> 00:24:10,320 for four years if they want I have not 543 00:24:15,230 --> 00:24:12,630 noticed any any significant difference 544 00:24:16,700 --> 00:24:15,240 between them in a normal population what 545 00:24:21,649 --> 00:24:16,710 I've noticed is that they just mirror 546 00:24:22,970 --> 00:24:21,659 the population and it's it really is 547 00:24:27,350 --> 00:24:22,980 sort of the good the bad the ugly in a 548 00:24:29,029 --> 00:24:27,360 sense and it's it's anybody in 549 00:24:31,190 --> 00:24:29,039 everything and I've also noticed that it 550 00:24:34,820 --> 00:24:31,200 cuts across all religions and ethnic 551 00:24:37,100 --> 00:24:34,830 lines and racial lines and economic 552 00:24:40,159 --> 00:24:37,110 lines educational lines and Geographic 553 00:24:41,510 --> 00:24:40,169 lines and and everything else and both 554 00:24:44,450 --> 00:24:41,520 but and I work for people from other 555 00:24:46,700 --> 00:24:44,460 countries and they all say the same 556 00:24:49,850 --> 00:24:46,710 thing it's it's sort of a remarkable 557 00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:49,860 phenomenon and one last point the 558 00:24:53,810 --> 00:24:52,110 majority of cases that I've looked at 559 00:24:56,899 --> 00:24:53,820 the majority of events that I've looked 560 00:24:59,299 --> 00:24:56,909 at take place in during the day time 561 00:25:01,669 --> 00:24:59,309 when a person is not asleep I've never 562 00:25:04,549 --> 00:25:01,679 had anybody who's had narcolepsy that I 563 00:25:06,980 --> 00:25:04,559 know of and or any star fell asleep 564 00:25:08,450 --> 00:25:06,990 problems along those those lines where 565 00:25:11,649 --> 00:25:08,460 there's obviously a brain dysfunction of 566 00:25:14,870 --> 00:25:11,659 some sort I think I'm working with a 567 00:25:17,299 --> 00:25:14,880 population that basically is a normal 568 00:25:19,820 --> 00:25:17,309 population for the society well one 569 00:25:22,250 --> 00:25:19,830 thing that I wanted to mention listening 570 00:25:24,710 --> 00:25:22,260 to - Kevin's observation is that you 571 00:25:26,570 --> 00:25:24,720 know I think an area that has not really 572 00:25:29,180 --> 00:25:26,580 been addressed in this whole area of 573 00:25:32,690 --> 00:25:29,190 investigation is some sort of 574 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:32,700 standardization I think we have a lot of 575 00:25:36,409 --> 00:25:34,890 people who are out there attempting to 576 00:25:38,029 --> 00:25:36,419 help people and I think this is a very 577 00:25:41,180 --> 00:25:38,039 good thing obviously there's something 578 00:25:43,190 --> 00:25:41,190 going on but I think if we somehow could 579 00:25:44,960 --> 00:25:43,200 come up with a standardized approach I 580 00:25:46,880 --> 00:25:44,970 think that the quality of the data that 581 00:25:50,180 --> 00:25:46,890 we would then be able to glean from now 582 00:25:52,399 --> 00:25:50,190 would be I think consistent across the 583 00:25:55,820 --> 00:25:52,409 board and that would give us 584 00:25:59,240 --> 00:25:55,830 opportunities to possibly learn about 585 00:26:01,920 --> 00:25:59,250 trends about potential potential 586 00:26:03,540 --> 00:26:01,930 commonalities I think throughout the end 587 00:26:06,560 --> 00:26:03,550 phenomenon and I think one of the things 588 00:26:09,060 --> 00:26:06,570 that I I was struck with Kevin's 589 00:26:12,990 --> 00:26:09,070 observation is that we really don't have 590 00:26:15,720 --> 00:26:13,000 a standardized approach and I know in 591 00:26:17,910 --> 00:26:15,730 for instance David and bud have you know 592 00:26:20,730 --> 00:26:17,920 their own personal approach in these 593 00:26:21,990 --> 00:26:20,740 things and as do other abduction 594 00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:22,000 researchers out there and I think 595 00:26:25,740 --> 00:26:23,890 perhaps with something a little bit more 596 00:26:29,340 --> 00:26:25,750 standardized we might be able to 597 00:26:31,740 --> 00:26:29,350 actually identify trends and you know so 598 00:26:33,840 --> 00:26:31,750 oftentimes I make a point of you know 599 00:26:35,340 --> 00:26:33,850 really looking at Pete yet not so much 600 00:26:36,540 --> 00:26:35,350 the answers that were given but it's the 601 00:26:39,060 --> 00:26:36,550 quality of the questions that we're 602 00:26:41,160 --> 00:26:39,070 asking to gain those answers and I'm 603 00:26:42,720 --> 00:26:41,170 just wondering have you guys attempted 604 00:26:43,890 --> 00:26:42,730 to really dovetail your efforts and come 605 00:26:45,810 --> 00:26:43,900 up with some sort of standardized 606 00:26:54,000 --> 00:26:45,820 approach I I'm assuming there you have 607 00:26:57,230 --> 00:26:54,010 it can I take that but I have been 608 00:26:59,250 --> 00:26:57,240 working on a book on how to do hypnosis 609 00:27:00,600 --> 00:26:59,260 without that these people who are a 610 00:27:02,970 --> 00:27:00,610 regular given that this can't do it's 611 00:27:04,470 --> 00:27:02,980 people who are spiritualist can't do it 612 00:27:07,440 --> 00:27:04,480 people who are in the New Age can't do 613 00:27:09,720 --> 00:27:07,450 it and all that it takes a special kind 614 00:27:11,820 --> 00:27:09,730 of training and a special kind of 615 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:11,830 questioning and it also takes knowledge 616 00:27:18,570 --> 00:27:15,010 of the abduction phenomenon itself and I 617 00:27:21,810 --> 00:27:18,580 have a manuscript now that needs serious 618 00:27:24,450 --> 00:27:21,820 editing but it's it's basically done 619 00:27:25,980 --> 00:27:24,460 basically done and the problem is is 620 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:25,990 that I feel at the market for a book 621 00:27:30,540 --> 00:27:27,970 like this probably is in the tens and 622 00:27:33,120 --> 00:27:30,550 tens so I'll almost certainly have to 623 00:27:35,490 --> 00:27:33,130 publish it myself but I think it is 624 00:27:36,960 --> 00:27:35,500 extremely important to do something I 625 00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:36,970 had this has been something that I've 626 00:27:41,250 --> 00:27:38,710 been thinking about for years and years 627 00:27:44,210 --> 00:27:41,260 and years the problem is is that it's 628 00:27:47,330 --> 00:27:44,220 pretty wild and wooly out there and 629 00:27:50,250 --> 00:27:47,340 anybody in this cab can do hypnosis 630 00:27:52,170 --> 00:27:50,260 anybody can say the magical incantation 631 00:27:54,510 --> 00:27:52,180 and hypnotize somebody else if they want 632 00:27:57,360 --> 00:27:54,520 to be hypnotized and then they can ask 633 00:27:59,700 --> 00:27:57,370 all sorts of questions that are 634 00:28:01,920 --> 00:27:59,710 meaningless or that lead people on or 635 00:28:05,220 --> 00:28:01,930 that fulfill an agenda of the hypnotist 636 00:28:06,550 --> 00:28:05,230 and the results can be really really 637 00:28:10,030 --> 00:28:06,560 awful 638 00:28:14,340 --> 00:28:10,040 and an unworthy of evidence of anything 639 00:28:17,020 --> 00:28:14,350 other than than the hypnotist agenda so 640 00:28:19,450 --> 00:28:17,030 there there are very few competent 641 00:28:22,000 --> 00:28:19,460 people out there who who know sort of 642 00:28:24,540 --> 00:28:22,010 what to do in my book the threat I 643 00:28:27,790 --> 00:28:24,550 addressed this issue is sort of squarely 644 00:28:30,540 --> 00:28:27,800 and and talked about the problems of 645 00:28:34,000 --> 00:28:30,550 incompetent hypnosis and mutually 646 00:28:35,890 --> 00:28:34,010 confirmatory fantasies that that the 647 00:28:38,710 --> 00:28:35,900 person who's being hypnotized can make a 648 00:28:41,890 --> 00:28:38,720 can do with their to dis themself and 649 00:28:43,480 --> 00:28:41,900 and so I'm very happy that you're 650 00:28:44,740 --> 00:28:43,490 thinking along the same lines because 651 00:28:48,310 --> 00:28:44,750 this is I think is something that is 652 00:28:50,560 --> 00:28:48,320 needed but well I completely agree I 653 00:28:53,620 --> 00:28:50,570 have of course a standard way of working 654 00:28:56,710 --> 00:28:53,630 but because of what I said about the 655 00:29:00,370 --> 00:28:56,720 issue of triage tonight people are 656 00:29:04,780 --> 00:29:00,380 coming in that I did with in various 657 00:29:08,070 --> 00:29:04,790 states of being emotionally collected 658 00:29:11,110 --> 00:29:08,080 and calm and everything very many people 659 00:29:14,200 --> 00:29:11,120 have a sense of distrust and so forth 660 00:29:16,990 --> 00:29:14,210 based on things that had happened in 661 00:29:19,780 --> 00:29:17,000 their life earlier when they told people 662 00:29:21,790 --> 00:29:19,790 about what was happening to them without 663 00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:21,800 even knowing that they were UFO 664 00:29:24,880 --> 00:29:24,170 connected but they can often sound very 665 00:29:27,610 --> 00:29:24,890 crazy 666 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:27,620 so these people are not easily 667 00:29:33,220 --> 00:29:30,110 approached at the beginning in some 668 00:29:36,850 --> 00:29:33,230 standardized way the same thing is is 669 00:29:40,210 --> 00:29:36,860 that what we're doing initially starts 670 00:29:44,080 --> 00:29:40,220 off without any doubt as as a sort of de 671 00:29:48,190 --> 00:29:44,090 facto therapy it has much more the 672 00:29:51,220 --> 00:29:48,200 quality and you know a therapist asking 673 00:29:52,690 --> 00:29:51,230 questions to find out the person's 674 00:29:54,850 --> 00:29:52,700 mental state and whether there's a 675 00:29:59,980 --> 00:29:54,860 safety net around them at home somehow 676 00:30:04,420 --> 00:29:59,990 all those questions but it takes a while 677 00:30:07,150 --> 00:30:04,430 to develop trust where in somebody might 678 00:30:10,620 --> 00:30:07,160 be able to ask about some questions that 679 00:30:13,630 --> 00:30:10,630 would seem very probing or perhaps 680 00:30:15,070 --> 00:30:13,640 irrelevant to the abductees such as 681 00:30:16,340 --> 00:30:15,080 whether you're right-handed or 682 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:16,350 left-handed 683 00:30:19,820 --> 00:30:18,330 I certainly agree that we've got to be 684 00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:19,830 more standardized in the way we're 685 00:30:26,270 --> 00:30:22,140 posting and I'm going to be giving a 686 00:30:29,419 --> 00:30:26,280 talk with summer workshop at the MUFON 687 00:30:33,549 --> 00:30:29,429 conference on on techniques of 688 00:30:36,830 --> 00:30:33,559 investigation of abduction cases so I'm 689 00:30:43,110 --> 00:30:36,840 sort of an effort toward some kind of 690 00:30:50,090 --> 00:30:47,810 [Music] 691 00:30:52,370 --> 00:30:50,100 picture this you're on the phone with a 692 00:30:55,330 --> 00:30:52,380 client or colleague trying to explain 693 00:30:57,770 --> 00:30:55,340 something visual a PowerPoint keynote 694 00:31:00,410 --> 00:30:57,780 presentation a website but it's 695 00:31:02,450 --> 00:31:00,420 frustrating because they can't see what 696 00:31:05,150 --> 00:31:02,460 you're talking about the solution good 697 00:31:08,750 --> 00:31:05,160 news they can if you invite them to an 698 00:31:11,120 --> 00:31:08,760 online meeting using GoToMeeting then 699 00:31:13,610 --> 00:31:11,130 they can see your computer desktop on 700 00:31:15,650 --> 00:31:13,620 their computer screen so you can show 701 00:31:17,150 --> 00:31:15,660 them what you're talking about by use 702 00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:17,160 goto meeting all the time to collaborate 703 00:31:23,060 --> 00:31:19,710 with colleagues and with clients you can 704 00:31:25,930 --> 00:31:23,070 try goto meeting free for 30 days but 705 00:31:29,710 --> 00:31:25,940 you must visit goto meeting slashed 706 00:31:44,870 --> 00:31:29,720 podcasts let's go to meeting.com slash 707 00:31:47,120 --> 00:31:44,880 podcasts for free 30-day trial next we 708 00:31:48,890 --> 00:31:47,130 have our special guest host christopher 709 00:31:51,410 --> 00:31:48,900 o'brien this is the parent chest 710 00:31:53,510 --> 00:31:51,420 ultimate abduction roundtable featuring 711 00:31:55,580 --> 00:31:53,520 dr. David Jacobs Kevin Randall Budd 712 00:31:57,170 --> 00:31:55,590 Hopkins Chris you had a question I'm you 713 00:31:59,300 --> 00:31:57,180 know one thing that's always kind of 714 00:32:03,310 --> 00:31:59,310 tweaked my curiosity and that is that 715 00:32:06,680 --> 00:32:03,320 that all you guys tend to have your own 716 00:32:08,450 --> 00:32:06,690 particular quality of cases I think that 717 00:32:10,160 --> 00:32:08,460 that seem to be attracted to you and 718 00:32:12,410 --> 00:32:10,170 your work and I'm wondering if you've 719 00:32:15,220 --> 00:32:12,420 ever really thought about why certain 720 00:32:17,600 --> 00:32:15,230 people contact you versus maybe 721 00:32:20,270 --> 00:32:17,610 contacting another abduction researcher 722 00:32:22,820 --> 00:32:20,280 if there's any sort of rhyme or reason I 723 00:32:25,370 --> 00:32:22,830 seem to have this feeling that your 724 00:32:27,860 --> 00:32:25,380 particular work as it is it evolves over 725 00:32:30,020 --> 00:32:27,870 the years tends to be a magnet for 726 00:32:31,490 --> 00:32:30,030 certain quality of cases that are 727 00:32:34,670 --> 00:32:31,500 attracted to you do you guys want to 728 00:32:36,500 --> 00:32:34,680 address that well for me they stumble 729 00:32:38,120 --> 00:32:36,510 upon my website often times or they've 730 00:32:40,310 --> 00:32:38,130 heard about me or they saw a lot of my 731 00:32:43,160 --> 00:32:40,320 books or something like that and and 732 00:32:46,940 --> 00:32:43,170 they get in touch with me and of course 733 00:32:49,220 --> 00:32:46,950 I can I get people from around the world 734 00:32:51,940 --> 00:32:49,230 getting in touch with me all the time I 735 00:32:55,340 --> 00:32:51,950 think it's I think it's random 736 00:32:57,200 --> 00:32:55,350 personally but but I never you know the 737 00:32:57,529 --> 00:32:57,210 I will ask them sometimes how did you 738 00:32:59,060 --> 00:32:57,539 find 739 00:33:00,919 --> 00:32:59,070 about me and they'll say well I just was 740 00:33:03,440 --> 00:33:00,929 going through the internet and I found 741 00:33:04,940 --> 00:33:03,450 your website then and found your 742 00:33:07,729 --> 00:33:04,950 questionnaire and that sort of thing 743 00:33:10,009 --> 00:33:07,739 so sometimes word of mouth and that I 744 00:33:12,560 --> 00:33:10,019 will get people who who know other 745 00:33:14,090 --> 00:33:12,570 people who are abject ease here in the 746 00:33:16,639 --> 00:33:14,100 in the Delaware Valley where I live in 747 00:33:18,229 --> 00:33:16,649 Pennsylvania and and they will call me 748 00:33:21,349 --> 00:33:18,239 and then therefore it's not random 749 00:33:24,409 --> 00:33:21,359 because they they know somebody but I 750 00:33:26,389 --> 00:33:24,419 think in general you know it's there 751 00:33:28,190 --> 00:33:26,399 might be people who go to new age groups 752 00:33:29,960 --> 00:33:28,200 and you know in search for some sort of 753 00:33:31,969 --> 00:33:29,970 relief from from the odd experience that 754 00:33:33,589 --> 00:33:31,979 they were having in terms of getting 755 00:33:35,839 --> 00:33:33,599 some sort of intellectual control over 756 00:33:38,149 --> 00:33:35,849 it and they will then you know again 757 00:33:39,889 --> 00:33:38,159 gauge in New Age therapists and then 758 00:33:41,889 --> 00:33:39,899 hypnotist to try to find out what's 759 00:33:44,899 --> 00:33:41,899 what's with them and get new age answers 760 00:33:48,379 --> 00:33:44,909 and and that would not be random I would 761 00:33:50,599 --> 00:33:48,389 imagine but for me and I assume for but 762 00:33:53,239 --> 00:33:50,609 as well it's a it appears to be 763 00:33:56,859 --> 00:33:53,249 completely random yes I I don't I don't 764 00:34:00,039 --> 00:33:56,869 really think that as much sort of 765 00:34:03,379 --> 00:34:00,049 unconscious or magical or whatever 766 00:34:07,489 --> 00:34:03,389 controls to lead somebody to a 767 00:34:08,960 --> 00:34:07,499 particular therapist I think proximity 768 00:34:10,639 --> 00:34:08,970 is a lot to do with that people in New 769 00:34:15,020 --> 00:34:10,649 York area contact me 770 00:34:17,210 --> 00:34:15,030 obviously when John Mack was active I 771 00:34:20,119 --> 00:34:17,220 think the people in you know but the 772 00:34:22,730 --> 00:34:20,129 Boston area came to him it's very 773 00:34:24,339 --> 00:34:22,740 interesting that I've had several 774 00:34:28,419 --> 00:34:24,349 different people that I've worked with 775 00:34:31,399 --> 00:34:28,429 that John Mack also worked with and 776 00:34:36,079 --> 00:34:31,409 essentially what was coming out was 777 00:34:37,940 --> 00:34:36,089 pretty much the same from matter who was 778 00:34:41,450 --> 00:34:37,950 doing the hypnosis it was the same 779 00:34:43,520 --> 00:34:41,460 situation even though John was one of 780 00:34:47,859 --> 00:34:43,530 those who thought that though that 781 00:34:50,299 --> 00:34:47,869 people were attracted to different 782 00:34:53,059 --> 00:34:50,309 researchers for different for particular 783 00:34:55,849 --> 00:34:53,069 reasons having to do with etiology or 784 00:34:57,650 --> 00:34:55,859 whatever but what I found was we were 785 00:35:00,890 --> 00:34:57,660 getting exactly the same thing happening 786 00:35:02,780 --> 00:35:00,900 and being reported whether Dave was 787 00:35:05,059 --> 00:35:02,790 worse and whether a jobs working with 788 00:35:08,599 --> 00:35:05,069 the Mehran was and in one case in 789 00:35:10,640 --> 00:35:08,609 Istanbul John and I did a joint session 790 00:35:14,589 --> 00:35:10,650 with the hedonic session 791 00:35:18,230 --> 00:35:14,599 and long interviews with a woman a 792 00:35:21,170 --> 00:35:18,240 Turkish woman and we got exactly the 793 00:35:25,730 --> 00:35:21,180 classic kind of thing that for instance 794 00:35:30,380 --> 00:35:25,740 I had gotten with Kathy Davis and just 795 00:35:33,349 --> 00:35:30,390 many many many many women involving some 796 00:35:37,220 --> 00:35:33,359 sort of production of some odd-looking 797 00:35:40,549 --> 00:35:37,230 babies being forced so hold it and so 798 00:35:44,569 --> 00:35:40,559 forth it was exactly what I get all the 799 00:35:47,510 --> 00:35:44,579 time and I think that John Mack wanted 800 00:35:52,210 --> 00:35:47,520 to feel that that there were and say 801 00:35:54,829 --> 00:35:52,220 more benign agendas out there and that 802 00:35:57,920 --> 00:35:54,839 people were coming to me simply because 803 00:35:59,539 --> 00:35:57,930 I was I had a particular agenda I don't 804 00:36:01,549 --> 00:35:59,549 think that's true at all I really don't 805 00:36:03,829 --> 00:36:01,559 I think it's in this randomness Dave 806 00:36:05,960 --> 00:36:03,839 said Kevin you had a response to any of 807 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:05,970 this well John Mack said a number of 808 00:36:12,710 --> 00:36:09,210 times and it's reported in CDD Bryant's 809 00:36:15,410 --> 00:36:12,720 book on the abduction conference held at 810 00:36:17,660 --> 00:36:15,420 MIT that he found a strange matching 811 00:36:20,420 --> 00:36:17,670 between the abduction researchers and 812 00:36:23,599 --> 00:36:20,430 the abductees and he and he wondered 813 00:36:32,630 --> 00:36:23,609 about that and we wondered and when I 814 00:36:37,160 --> 00:36:32,640 say we'd bill columns a season-high that 815 00:36:39,380 --> 00:36:37,170 some of the belief of the researcher is 816 00:36:42,950 --> 00:36:39,390 communicated to the abductee so there 817 00:36:44,630 --> 00:36:42,960 seems to be a more close matching 818 00:36:48,829 --> 00:36:44,640 between the abductee and the researcher 819 00:36:51,289 --> 00:36:48,839 there might be might be well I think my 820 00:36:54,410 --> 00:36:51,299 point being we've been asking that 821 00:36:56,690 --> 00:36:54,420 question is you don't hear about cases 822 00:36:58,370 --> 00:36:56,700 let's say for instance that Leo sprinkle 823 00:37:01,819 --> 00:36:58,380 is dealt with over the years that that 824 00:37:03,680 --> 00:37:01,829 fall outside of his particular I think 825 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:03,690 kind of built-in belief system around 826 00:37:07,190 --> 00:37:05,250 this that's this whole subject in other 827 00:37:08,660 --> 00:37:07,200 words he's not getting to my knowledge 828 00:37:11,569 --> 00:37:08,670 he's not getting people that have 829 00:37:14,420 --> 00:37:11,579 horrific experiences and violations and 830 00:37:16,940 --> 00:37:14,430 hybridized babies and and the types of 831 00:37:18,980 --> 00:37:16,950 things that possibly you know you would 832 00:37:20,990 --> 00:37:18,990 see more prevalent but but in David's 833 00:37:22,670 --> 00:37:21,000 work I've always suspected and had a 834 00:37:23,320 --> 00:37:22,680 hunch that there is some sort of 835 00:37:25,930 --> 00:37:23,330 connection 836 00:37:28,990 --> 00:37:25,940 Queen the quality of your cases and the 837 00:37:31,930 --> 00:37:29,000 process that that these people undergo 838 00:37:33,760 --> 00:37:31,940 to approach somebody for help and I 839 00:37:35,560 --> 00:37:33,770 think that this could be a very 840 00:37:38,140 --> 00:37:35,570 important area for some sort of 841 00:37:42,280 --> 00:37:38,150 statistical analysis in other words I I 842 00:37:44,350 --> 00:37:42,290 don't recall seeing very many cases from 843 00:37:47,470 --> 00:37:44,360 the our two guests that for instance 844 00:37:50,410 --> 00:37:47,480 talk about love inline and benevolent 845 00:37:52,690 --> 00:37:50,420 space brothers and how wonderful of an 846 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:52,700 experience at these these encounters are 847 00:37:56,710 --> 00:37:54,530 there are cases out there with these 848 00:37:58,810 --> 00:37:56,720 people where people and I had a case 849 00:38:01,930 --> 00:37:58,820 myself that I did investigate pretty 850 00:38:03,220 --> 00:38:01,940 extensively I've no hypnotist by any 851 00:38:05,110 --> 00:38:03,230 stretch and didn't attempt to do that 852 00:38:07,240 --> 00:38:05,120 there's a fully conscious series of 853 00:38:09,550 --> 00:38:07,250 events but but one of the things that 854 00:38:11,470 --> 00:38:09,560 I've noticed is it the more dire 855 00:38:13,930 --> 00:38:11,480 sounding cases tend to be attracted to 856 00:38:15,850 --> 00:38:13,940 certain types of researchers whereas the 857 00:38:18,390 --> 00:38:15,860 the the opposite end of the spectrum 858 00:38:20,740 --> 00:38:18,400 seem to be attracted to others 859 00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:20,750 investigators and what do you guys I 860 00:38:25,270 --> 00:38:22,490 mean have you noticed this at all I mean 861 00:38:27,330 --> 00:38:25,280 how many positive abduction cases for 862 00:38:29,890 --> 00:38:27,340 instance so what would be the percentage 863 00:38:31,720 --> 00:38:29,900 of people that have wonderful 864 00:38:33,970 --> 00:38:31,730 experiences but want to know more about 865 00:38:36,040 --> 00:38:33,980 them how many of these types of cases 866 00:38:38,560 --> 00:38:36,050 have an interactivity to the two of you 867 00:38:40,060 --> 00:38:38,570 well the first thing this should be 868 00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:40,070 pointed out again 869 00:38:49,050 --> 00:38:44,810 UFO abductions are extremely complex 870 00:38:53,070 --> 00:38:49,060 events which have moments in which the 871 00:38:55,840 --> 00:38:53,080 whether this is induced or not whether 872 00:38:58,510 --> 00:38:55,850 sometimes the abductee feels this 873 00:39:03,010 --> 00:38:58,520 incredible sense of love and bond with 874 00:39:07,150 --> 00:39:03,020 the abductor and yet very often that 875 00:39:09,850 --> 00:39:07,160 that changes as the case progresses to 876 00:39:12,760 --> 00:39:09,860 the fact that they have the great anger 877 00:39:15,640 --> 00:39:12,770 and feel that this has been something 878 00:39:17,740 --> 00:39:15,650 that's been placed in their heads I can 879 00:39:22,750 --> 00:39:17,750 understand and understand easily how 880 00:39:26,140 --> 00:39:22,760 somebody might sort of lock into the the 881 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:26,150 investigator may luck into the beatific 882 00:39:31,360 --> 00:39:29,330 side of somebody's experience and just 883 00:39:33,150 --> 00:39:31,370 simply ignore the others and not even 884 00:39:36,240 --> 00:39:33,160 ask questions 885 00:39:38,609 --> 00:39:36,250 would expand the context of what is 886 00:39:41,520 --> 00:39:38,619 being found out we have to ask many many 887 00:39:44,370 --> 00:39:41,530 questions and I I think that first of 888 00:39:48,750 --> 00:39:44,380 all the meals sprinkle was a wonderful 889 00:39:52,349 --> 00:39:48,760 person has a sort of unusual technique 890 00:39:56,039 --> 00:39:52,359 and I remember sending a man who wanted 891 00:39:59,220 --> 00:39:56,049 a contact was somebody who could help 892 00:40:01,859 --> 00:39:59,230 him sending him to Leo and he later 893 00:40:04,740 --> 00:40:01,869 reported to me that what had happened is 894 00:40:07,650 --> 00:40:04,750 that Leo was an excellent hypnotist 895 00:40:10,650 --> 00:40:07,660 could not seem to get him into hypnotic 896 00:40:15,180 --> 00:40:10,660 state which I would suggest as his an 897 00:40:17,520 --> 00:40:15,190 issue of trust and he said Leo then said 898 00:40:21,240 --> 00:40:17,530 let's change places I lie down on the 899 00:40:22,920 --> 00:40:21,250 couch and you sit in my chair I will put 900 00:40:26,609 --> 00:40:22,930 myself into a trance state and I will 901 00:40:29,430 --> 00:40:26,619 tell you what happened to you I mean at 902 00:40:33,720 --> 00:40:29,440 that point that the man was rather about 903 00:40:37,289 --> 00:40:33,730 this the basic message was that Leo came 904 00:40:40,710 --> 00:40:37,299 up with was that the aliens wanted him 905 00:40:42,720 --> 00:40:40,720 to go back to his home and show more 906 00:40:45,930 --> 00:40:42,730 love for the people who lived around him 907 00:40:48,029 --> 00:40:45,940 well at that point you know when we talk 908 00:40:48,720 --> 00:40:48,039 about getting what's pitch the portions 909 00:40:51,720 --> 00:40:48,730 agenda 910 00:40:54,510 --> 00:40:51,730 I think Leo got what he wanted out of 911 00:40:56,490 --> 00:40:54,520 that but I do think that these 912 00:40:59,910 --> 00:40:56,500 experiences are so complex that you can 913 00:41:03,299 --> 00:40:59,920 if you do it very lightly you can easily 914 00:41:07,950 --> 00:41:03,309 tap into a particular aspect of the 915 00:41:10,859 --> 00:41:07,960 experience which then if you go by that 916 00:41:12,569 --> 00:41:10,869 is the only thing that really happens it 917 00:41:15,210 --> 00:41:12,579 can warp your life damn 918 00:41:18,960 --> 00:41:15,220 so are you seeing that the lighter the 919 00:41:22,170 --> 00:41:18,970 the approach the deeper you get into a 920 00:41:27,109 --> 00:41:22,180 particular person's case the more 921 00:41:34,650 --> 00:41:32,000 about my point has always been that 922 00:41:37,349 --> 00:41:34,660 oddity one of the most confusing things 923 00:41:44,320 --> 00:41:37,359 to the abductee is that they do not end 924 00:41:50,170 --> 00:41:47,890 they don't see the mess evil beings 925 00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:50,180 intent upon their destruction and so 926 00:41:58,510 --> 00:41:54,730 forth it's the neutrality of the aliens 927 00:42:00,040 --> 00:41:58,520 appearance of behavior so upsetting to 928 00:42:02,620 --> 00:42:00,050 people because they don't know what to 929 00:42:06,070 --> 00:42:02,630 make of it and that also of course 930 00:42:08,590 --> 00:42:06,080 allows room for the interpretation on 931 00:42:10,570 --> 00:42:08,600 the part of the abductee what this is 932 00:42:13,570 --> 00:42:10,580 going to be about if you're really 933 00:42:15,720 --> 00:42:13,580 really hopeful you might just focus on 934 00:42:19,480 --> 00:42:15,730 the hopeful side of it and that's your 935 00:42:21,940 --> 00:42:19,490 somewhat paranoid you might not but the 936 00:42:27,260 --> 00:42:21,950 point is it's these things have to be 937 00:42:32,890 --> 00:42:29,790 [Music] 938 00:42:34,990 --> 00:42:32,900 fate magazine provides true reports of 939 00:42:37,570 --> 00:42:35,000 the strange and unknown keep up with the 940 00:42:40,720 --> 00:42:37,580 latest on angels and miracles psychic 941 00:42:41,650 --> 00:42:40,730 phenomena ghosts UFOs life after death 942 00:42:44,080 --> 00:42:41,660 and much much more 943 00:42:46,720 --> 00:42:44,090 to receive your free issue of faith 944 00:42:50,620 --> 00:42:46,730 magazine call now at one eight hundred 945 00:42:54,850 --> 00:42:50,630 seven two eight two seven three zero or 946 00:42:57,370 --> 00:42:54,860 visit their website at WWF a mad calm 947 00:43:06,250 --> 00:42:57,380 that's one eight hundred seven to eight 948 00:43:08,650 --> 00:43:06,260 twenty seven thirty or WWF a TEM AG calm 949 00:43:14,810 --> 00:43:08,660 what are you waiting for your fate 950 00:43:20,770 --> 00:43:17,960 this is a bear gasps you never know 951 00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:20,780 what's yes 952 00:43:26,710 --> 00:43:23,930 [Music] 953 00:43:28,779 --> 00:43:26,720 this is an ultimate abduction roundtable 954 00:43:31,210 --> 00:43:28,789 on the power cast Christopher O'Brien is 955 00:43:33,849 --> 00:43:31,220 my co-host we're featuring bud Hawkins 956 00:43:36,400 --> 00:43:33,859 Kevin Randall dr. David Jacobson noticed 957 00:43:39,250 --> 00:43:36,410 that I vary the order of the name so 958 00:43:41,559 --> 00:43:39,260 nobody's ego was being offended by nerds 959 00:43:44,799 --> 00:43:41,569 anyway okay well you know that's 960 00:43:47,799 --> 00:43:44,809 deliberate Kevin did you have a response 961 00:43:50,049 --> 00:43:47,809 before I dropped something in force what 962 00:43:52,599 --> 00:43:50,059 I have said by suggesting that some 963 00:43:54,730 --> 00:43:52,609 Richards do pull out of their abductees 964 00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:54,740 exactly what they wanted here so I mean 965 00:43:58,510 --> 00:43:56,450 that point that point is made so the 966 00:44:01,359 --> 00:43:58,520 question becomes how prevalent is that 967 00:44:03,190 --> 00:44:01,369 throughout the entire abduction research 968 00:44:05,079 --> 00:44:03,200 community and when we talk about that 969 00:44:08,200 --> 00:44:05,089 we're not talking just about Bob Hopkins 970 00:44:10,480 --> 00:44:08,210 or dr. Jacobs were talking about a lot 971 00:44:13,900 --> 00:44:10,490 of people including Leo sprinkle and and 972 00:44:16,420 --> 00:44:13,910 Jim harder or we're talking about Jim 973 00:44:18,760 --> 00:44:16,430 harder or some of the other other people 974 00:44:21,760 --> 00:44:18,770 out there doing abduction research they 975 00:44:25,930 --> 00:44:21,770 seem to draw from their abductees what 976 00:44:28,900 --> 00:44:25,940 they expect to get and John was talking 977 00:44:30,490 --> 00:44:28,910 about as they were they and he and his 978 00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:30,500 assistant were doing hypnotic 979 00:44:35,920 --> 00:44:33,710 regressions on some of their clients was 980 00:44:37,950 --> 00:44:35,930 saying as they ask the questions they 981 00:44:41,109 --> 00:44:37,960 knew what the answer is going to be and 982 00:44:44,890 --> 00:44:41,119 so there seemed to be a suggestion there 983 00:44:47,920 --> 00:44:44,900 that there was an unconscious desire by 984 00:44:50,529 --> 00:44:47,930 carpenter and an unconscious directing 985 00:44:52,029 --> 00:44:50,539 by carpenter toward the answers he 986 00:44:53,170 --> 00:44:52,039 wanted to get because they would sit 987 00:44:55,359 --> 00:44:53,180 there saying yeah we know what's going 988 00:44:57,160 --> 00:44:55,369 to happen next and as the witness was 989 00:44:58,210 --> 00:44:57,170 talking about this we were nodding and 990 00:45:02,440 --> 00:44:58,220 saying yeah we knew that was something 991 00:45:04,569 --> 00:45:02,450 meth so in the totality of abduction 992 00:45:07,779 --> 00:45:04,579 research we seem to see some of that 993 00:45:13,019 --> 00:45:07,789 sort of thing going on well let me just 994 00:45:16,510 --> 00:45:13,029 add to that that unconsciously promoting 995 00:45:19,029 --> 00:45:16,520 thoughts in a person that are complex is 996 00:45:21,180 --> 00:45:19,039 something that is God that'd that that 997 00:45:23,650 --> 00:45:21,190 would be a difficult thing that to do 998 00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:23,660 I've tried to do that with my wife and I 999 00:45:27,700 --> 00:45:25,490 just I just can't can't seem to get that 1000 00:45:30,290 --> 00:45:27,710 done 1001 00:45:35,840 --> 00:45:30,300 the problem is you do not have your life 1002 00:45:42,050 --> 00:45:35,850 in a hypnotic state we should probably 1003 00:45:45,680 --> 00:45:42,060 ask her that yeah the situation is this 1004 00:45:48,350 --> 00:45:45,690 that that hypnosis is not some sort of 1005 00:45:51,710 --> 00:45:48,360 magical situation where a person is 1006 00:45:53,510 --> 00:45:51,720 completely and totally in some sort of a 1007 00:45:55,760 --> 00:45:53,520 trance and they and their in their 1008 00:45:57,920 --> 00:45:55,770 trilby and the hypnotist is a galleon 1009 00:46:00,950 --> 00:45:57,930 and anything that Sangolli says they 1010 00:46:02,300 --> 00:46:00,960 will do it's not like that at all a lot 1011 00:46:04,700 --> 00:46:02,310 of people don't even know that they are 1012 00:46:06,710 --> 00:46:04,710 in a relaxed and comfortable state they 1013 00:46:09,380 --> 00:46:06,720 just they look at me say only amenitized 1014 00:46:11,810 --> 00:46:09,390 and I say it doesn't really matter lay 1015 00:46:14,240 --> 00:46:11,820 back down and in some ways it doesn't 1016 00:46:17,480 --> 00:46:14,250 and in some ways it does we know that 1017 00:46:18,950 --> 00:46:17,490 hypnosis is it works we know we have 1018 00:46:21,410 --> 00:46:18,960 only learned recently that there are 1019 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:21,420 some brainwave brainwave changes in 1020 00:46:26,990 --> 00:46:23,970 hypnosis we don't exactly know why it 1021 00:46:28,730 --> 00:46:27,000 works but without it we cannot get to 1022 00:46:30,830 --> 00:46:28,740 the abduction from Allen because people 1023 00:46:35,000 --> 00:46:30,840 remember abductions they'll remember 1024 00:46:37,970 --> 00:46:35,010 bits and pieces of abductions and it is 1025 00:46:39,860 --> 00:46:37,980 a tool that is tricky it's it's 1026 00:46:43,670 --> 00:46:39,870 something that that as Christians needs 1027 00:46:46,280 --> 00:46:43,680 innovation of methodology for sure but 1028 00:46:48,380 --> 00:46:46,290 let me tell you a story well my basic 1029 00:46:50,240 --> 00:46:48,390 question is the question that all from 1030 00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:50,250 all other questions is what happens next 1031 00:46:55,340 --> 00:46:53,310 a woman came to me once who was an older 1032 00:46:58,730 --> 00:46:55,350 woman she was heavily encased in Jewish 1033 00:47:02,180 --> 00:46:58,740 material and that was fine that was okay 1034 00:47:04,640 --> 00:47:02,190 and we started doing we did two sessions 1035 00:47:06,020 --> 00:47:04,650 in the first session this happened to 1036 00:47:07,640 --> 00:47:06,030 her and that happened too and I like to 1037 00:47:10,010 --> 00:47:07,650 start out in chronological order from 1038 00:47:11,780 --> 00:47:10,020 the time before it happened to when it 1039 00:47:13,100 --> 00:47:11,790 starts to happen and what happens is the 1040 00:47:17,510 --> 00:47:13,110 first thing that happens in this segment 1041 00:47:20,090 --> 00:47:17,520 so forth and so on and and and so she is 1042 00:47:21,440 --> 00:47:20,100 she talks about this that this that is 1043 00:47:24,110 --> 00:47:21,450 that all the way to the end and there 1044 00:47:26,750 --> 00:47:24,120 was nothing that she told me that was 1045 00:47:28,490 --> 00:47:26,760 particularly new agey or spiritually 1046 00:47:31,310 --> 00:47:28,500 enlightening or transformational or 1047 00:47:33,850 --> 00:47:31,320 anything like that and she was a little 1048 00:47:36,550 --> 00:47:33,860 bit shaken because she had 1049 00:47:38,530 --> 00:47:36,560 dad this is where I was going to be and 1050 00:47:40,510 --> 00:47:38,540 she came back for another session and 1051 00:47:41,830 --> 00:47:40,520 the same thing happened and I just do 1052 00:47:46,740 --> 00:47:41,840 the same question that I do with 1053 00:47:51,100 --> 00:47:46,750 everybody which is a very very very non 1054 00:47:52,810 --> 00:47:51,110 agenda type questioning and once again 1055 00:47:55,300 --> 00:47:52,820 and she just came I was a sort of 1056 00:47:56,770 --> 00:47:55,310 standard abduction the event that 1057 00:47:59,560 --> 00:47:56,780 anybody who does the flexion hypnosis 1058 00:48:01,780 --> 00:47:59,570 will look will come across and then she 1059 00:48:04,090 --> 00:48:01,790 wrote me a letter saying that she was 1060 00:48:06,700 --> 00:48:04,100 stopping coming to me because she was 1061 00:48:10,000 --> 00:48:06,710 not the remembering the material that 1062 00:48:11,920 --> 00:48:10,010 she wanted to remember she was just 1063 00:48:14,860 --> 00:48:11,930 remembering stuff that it happened to 1064 00:48:17,290 --> 00:48:14,870 her not what she expected to remember so 1065 00:48:19,780 --> 00:48:17,300 her expectations were now realized and I 1066 00:48:21,460 --> 00:48:19,790 didn't particularly care what she was 1067 00:48:23,200 --> 00:48:21,470 doing I mean if she remembers spiritual 1068 00:48:24,760 --> 00:48:23,210 things that's fine that's good and 1069 00:48:25,900 --> 00:48:24,770 others I'm glad she's having it having 1070 00:48:28,840 --> 00:48:25,910 it that's fine you know I don't have a 1071 00:48:32,020 --> 00:48:28,850 stake in it necessarily but she did and 1072 00:48:34,000 --> 00:48:32,030 yet she could not come out with what she 1073 00:48:38,350 --> 00:48:34,010 was just remembering what happened and 1074 00:48:42,400 --> 00:48:38,360 that was that happened to be a number of 1075 00:48:43,420 --> 00:48:42,410 times to with people with rigidly very 1076 00:48:45,670 --> 00:48:43,430 New Age beliefs 1077 00:48:48,310 --> 00:48:45,680 let me just raise I think the largest 1078 00:48:50,500 --> 00:48:48,320 issue of all here and this will go from 1079 00:48:55,180 --> 00:48:50,510 part one part two and that is the 1080 00:48:57,820 --> 00:48:55,190 efficacy of using regression hypnosis to 1081 00:48:59,650 --> 00:48:57,830 unearth details in abduction so now I 1082 00:49:02,050 --> 00:48:59,660 realize the lots of pros and cons here 1083 00:49:04,750 --> 00:49:02,060 and whoever wants to jump in go ahead 1084 00:49:07,030 --> 00:49:04,760 but isn't there the danger here that 1085 00:49:10,720 --> 00:49:07,040 maybe using a technology that hasn't 1086 00:49:13,240 --> 00:49:10,730 been shown to reveal really accurate 1087 00:49:15,280 --> 00:49:13,250 results who wants to take that well I 1088 00:49:17,620 --> 00:49:15,290 can take that a little bit and I'll pass 1089 00:49:21,010 --> 00:49:17,630 it off the bud when people come to me 1090 00:49:23,290 --> 00:49:21,020 there is most of them are acutely aware 1091 00:49:25,060 --> 00:49:23,300 of several things number one they don't 1092 00:49:26,110 --> 00:49:25,070 want to be led you know all about 1093 00:49:27,610 --> 00:49:26,120 leading they know they're gonna be 1094 00:49:29,110 --> 00:49:27,620 vulnerable you know that they're gonna 1095 00:49:31,330 --> 00:49:29,120 be suggestible they don't want me to 1096 00:49:33,270 --> 00:49:31,340 lead them number two they don't want to 1097 00:49:35,620 --> 00:49:33,280 be in a situation where they're 1098 00:49:37,570 --> 00:49:35,630 unconsciously picking up things and 1099 00:49:39,670 --> 00:49:37,580 popular culture and then parroting them 1100 00:49:41,590 --> 00:49:39,680 back to me they're aware of that also 1101 00:49:42,970 --> 00:49:41,600 now obviously I don't want those things 1102 00:49:46,839 --> 00:49:42,980 either 1103 00:49:49,630 --> 00:49:46,849 and and in my hypnosis I strive to avoid 1104 00:49:53,319 --> 00:49:49,640 things like that obviously I'm not 1105 00:49:56,500 --> 00:49:53,329 interested in bad data so so it's but 1106 00:50:01,079 --> 00:49:56,510 hypnosis is well I think we all wish 1107 00:50:06,099 --> 00:50:04,630 mccann act as and as a gate and and for 1108 00:50:08,109 --> 00:50:06,109 incompetent people that can act as a 1109 00:50:09,670 --> 00:50:08,119 barrier to finding out what's going on 1110 00:50:13,660 --> 00:50:09,680 what's going on I mean he's gonna act as 1111 00:50:16,510 --> 00:50:13,670 an open gate rather and but but the fact 1112 00:50:18,190 --> 00:50:16,520 is is that yes there was full 1113 00:50:20,349 --> 00:50:18,200 remembrance of everything that was 1114 00:50:21,940 --> 00:50:20,359 happening to everybody we would have no 1115 00:50:24,359 --> 00:50:21,950 abduction phenomenon the abduction 1116 00:50:27,310 --> 00:50:24,369 phenomena would not be a feasible event 1117 00:50:30,819 --> 00:50:27,320 but in fact it is a an event that takes 1118 00:50:33,609 --> 00:50:30,829 place clandestinely and we we encounter 1119 00:50:35,859 --> 00:50:33,619 people who remembers odd things who have 1120 00:50:39,310 --> 00:50:35,869 lifetimes of odd events happening to 1121 00:50:41,650 --> 00:50:39,320 them and they in some way know that this 1122 00:50:43,420 --> 00:50:41,660 is not the way it should be they 1123 00:50:46,120 --> 00:50:43,430 understand there are a lot of different 1124 00:50:49,960 --> 00:50:46,130 ways but for a large percentage of 1125 00:50:52,270 --> 00:50:49,970 people who are abductors they cannot 1126 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:52,280 connect to the abduction found at all on 1127 00:50:56,680 --> 00:50:54,650 their their unusual experiences that is 1128 00:50:59,829 --> 00:50:56,690 they don't make that connection and so 1129 00:51:02,859 --> 00:50:59,839 we won't see them and then so we do want 1130 00:51:04,660 --> 00:51:02,869 that that in some way no something is 1131 00:51:06,550 --> 00:51:04,670 amiss here and shouldn't be happening 1132 00:51:08,849 --> 00:51:06,560 the way it is and they don't understand 1133 00:51:13,920 --> 00:51:08,859 why it is that they will have these 1134 00:51:18,370 --> 00:51:13,930 missing time situations as buds first 1135 00:51:20,319 --> 00:51:18,380 book was entitled of two or three hours 1136 00:51:21,880 --> 00:51:20,329 or even longer and not know what 1137 00:51:24,280 --> 00:51:21,890 happened to them and nobody else knows 1138 00:51:26,829 --> 00:51:24,290 what happened to them or sees them and 1139 00:51:29,020 --> 00:51:26,839 just to tell you a short story I worked 1140 00:51:31,569 --> 00:51:29,030 with a woman once as an extremely 1141 00:51:34,660 --> 00:51:31,579 intelligent and articulate woman who 1142 00:51:37,150 --> 00:51:34,670 years ago worked in New York City in 57 1143 00:51:41,140 --> 00:51:37,160 state I guess it was as a laboratory 1144 00:51:42,970 --> 00:51:41,150 assistant and she haven't power for for 1145 00:51:45,040 --> 00:51:42,980 a luncheon she knew that she was going 1146 00:51:46,569 --> 00:51:45,050 to go across the street and get a slice 1147 00:51:48,339 --> 00:51:46,579 of pizza and that would take about 15 1148 00:51:49,809 --> 00:51:48,349 minutes and then for the next 45 minutes 1149 00:51:51,609 --> 00:51:49,819 he was going to go over she's gonna do 1150 00:51:52,780 --> 00:51:51,619 shopping so she when she got her slice a 1151 00:51:54,820 --> 00:51:52,790 piece as she walked out of the 1152 00:51:57,640 --> 00:51:54,830 restaurant the next thing she knows 1153 00:52:01,450 --> 00:51:57,650 it was three hours later and she's in a 1154 00:52:03,730 --> 00:52:01,460 building site there's a hole in the in a 1155 00:52:05,910 --> 00:52:03,740 law to with with with with equipment 1156 00:52:08,590 --> 00:52:05,920 that crane a digger whatever you know 1157 00:52:10,990 --> 00:52:08,600 down at the bottom and she's on a 1158 00:52:13,090 --> 00:52:11,000 walkway around it with a fence and she 1159 00:52:14,530 --> 00:52:13,100 has to walk around this walkway and then 1160 00:52:16,390 --> 00:52:14,540 she gets out through the fence there's a 1161 00:52:17,860 --> 00:52:16,400 little opening there and she's totally 1162 00:52:20,980 --> 00:52:17,870 destroying doesn't know where she is 1163 00:52:23,110 --> 00:52:20,990 she gets back to her office and her boss 1164 00:52:24,310 --> 00:52:23,120 says where have you been my god we 1165 00:52:25,510 --> 00:52:24,320 thought you had been month there's 1166 00:52:26,110 --> 00:52:25,520 something we were just about to call the 1167 00:52:29,140 --> 00:52:26,120 police 1168 00:52:31,690 --> 00:52:29,150 and he went directly into her her own 1169 00:52:34,360 --> 00:52:31,700 office and called her physician and said 1170 00:52:36,460 --> 00:52:34,370 I think I just had a stroke and that was 1171 00:52:38,530 --> 00:52:36,470 of course the correct thing to do 1172 00:52:40,330 --> 00:52:38,540 because you're not going to have a 1173 00:52:41,530 --> 00:52:40,340 period of three hours or you don't know 1174 00:52:42,880 --> 00:52:41,540 where you are you wake up somewhere else 1175 00:52:45,250 --> 00:52:42,890 or you've come to consciousness 1176 00:52:47,290 --> 00:52:45,260 somewhere especially in Manhattan right 1177 00:52:49,030 --> 00:52:47,300 well you know struggling Manhattan just 1178 00:52:52,030 --> 00:52:49,040 by getting around town every day and 1179 00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:52,040 putting up with the hassles of that city 1180 00:52:56,710 --> 00:52:54,410 right well the point was is that she did 1181 00:52:58,450 --> 00:52:56,720 have an MRI and she went for she went 1182 00:53:00,550 --> 00:52:58,460 through with it and there was of course 1183 00:53:02,350 --> 00:53:00,560 nothing on the MRI everything was fine 1184 00:53:03,220 --> 00:53:02,360 she did not have a stroke she doesn't 1185 00:53:05,380 --> 00:53:03,230 have a brain tumor 1186 00:53:06,760 --> 00:53:05,390 she eventually came to me and we knew we 1187 00:53:08,650 --> 00:53:06,770 found out sort of what had happened to 1188 00:53:10,810 --> 00:53:08,660 her during that three hours and when you 1189 00:53:13,210 --> 00:53:10,820 do it through hypnosis because people 1190 00:53:16,330 --> 00:53:13,220 have these experiences and they'll tell 1191 00:53:18,820 --> 00:53:16,340 you think about them for 10 20 30 years 1192 00:53:20,350 --> 00:53:18,830 sometimes some some sort of triggering 1193 00:53:21,400 --> 00:53:20,360 event something that they remembered as 1194 00:53:24,010 --> 00:53:21,410 opposed to all the rest them that they 1195 00:53:25,750 --> 00:53:24,020 don't and when they finally come to it's 1196 00:53:28,240 --> 00:53:25,760 a butter to me and they and we look at 1197 00:53:31,210 --> 00:53:28,250 them the it resolved so they understand 1198 00:53:33,700 --> 00:53:31,220 oh I remember it now now I get it that's 1199 00:53:35,560 --> 00:53:33,710 what it is and it unfortunately it's 1200 00:53:37,690 --> 00:53:35,570 only hypnosis that does it now there 1201 00:53:38,770 --> 00:53:37,700 have been other attempts to try 1202 00:53:43,030 --> 00:53:38,780 different techniques 1203 00:53:45,430 --> 00:53:43,040 there's holotropic or hello topic breast 1204 00:53:47,560 --> 00:53:45,440 work that your Mac used to do other 1205 00:53:49,630 --> 00:53:47,570 researchers of them sort of a a a 1206 00:53:51,580 --> 00:53:49,640 situation where you clap your hands six 1207 00:53:53,540 --> 00:53:51,590 times or whatever it is and then there's 1208 00:53:55,550 --> 00:53:53,550 a MD there there's 1209 00:53:59,630 --> 00:53:55,560 there AMD rather there's all sorts of 1210 00:54:01,700 --> 00:53:59,640 other treatments but but the best one is 1211 00:54:04,970 --> 00:54:01,710 basically just getting somebody to relax 1212 00:54:07,400 --> 00:54:04,980 to focus to sort of go back into the 1213 00:54:09,290 --> 00:54:07,410 events of the the time and and start 1214 00:54:10,490 --> 00:54:09,300 reporting them now this does not say 1215 00:54:12,740 --> 00:54:10,500 that they don't say things that aren't 1216 00:54:15,290 --> 00:54:12,750 true I found that that does happen and 1217 00:54:17,270 --> 00:54:15,300 there is confabulation and there are 1218 00:54:20,150 --> 00:54:17,280 there are false memories and that does 1219 00:54:22,820 --> 00:54:20,160 happen and it's and it's up to me to try 1220 00:54:25,040 --> 00:54:22,830 to separate it out and and and try to 1221 00:54:27,410 --> 00:54:25,050 say you know what this is I think this 1222 00:54:31,190 --> 00:54:27,420 is important than this isn't important 1223 00:54:33,680 --> 00:54:31,200 for example there was a guy who came to 1224 00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:33,690 me once and when he was a little kid 1225 00:54:38,390 --> 00:54:36,290 house is already here in a year in a 1226 00:54:40,910 --> 00:54:38,400 strange area here when you're like a 1227 00:54:43,670 --> 00:54:40,920 five-year-old or something like that and 1228 00:54:46,100 --> 00:54:43,680 he and his his mother and his baby 1229 00:54:48,080 --> 00:54:46,110 brother had gone out strawberry picking 1230 00:54:49,730 --> 00:54:48,090 now this was an event that he was in his 1231 00:54:51,980 --> 00:54:49,740 thirties he has thought about this 1232 00:54:53,450 --> 00:54:51,990 consistently throughout his entire life 1233 00:54:56,330 --> 00:54:53,460 this was his triggering event 1234 00:54:58,430 --> 00:54:56,340 essentially and we we determined that 1235 00:55:00,550 --> 00:54:58,440 that he was in the backseat of a car and 1236 00:55:04,850 --> 00:55:00,560 he were driving and instead of going to 1237 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:04,860 strawberry picking he went to they went 1238 00:55:07,550 --> 00:55:06,210 to an area where there was a big water 1239 00:55:09,500 --> 00:55:07,560 tower they parked in a parking lot 1240 00:55:11,000 --> 00:55:09,510 around it and there was an object there 1241 00:55:12,380 --> 00:55:11,010 then I think he knew he and his mother 1242 00:55:15,110 --> 00:55:12,390 and her baby were being lifted up into 1243 00:55:16,250 --> 00:55:15,120 this object and this time filming that 1244 00:55:17,360 --> 00:55:16,260 happen to him this happened um that 1245 00:55:19,730 --> 00:55:17,370 happened to him and then they brought 1246 00:55:21,440 --> 00:55:19,740 him back down he was found himself in 1247 00:55:23,480 --> 00:55:21,450 the back in the parking lot and he 1248 00:55:25,550 --> 00:55:23,490 looked at this at the street which was 1249 00:55:28,490 --> 00:55:25,560 right next to where they'd come in and 1250 00:55:31,130 --> 00:55:28,500 he saw what was obviously a penny or 1251 00:55:32,840 --> 00:55:31,140 something lying in the street he ran out 1252 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:32,850 into the street to get the penny and a 1253 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:35,490 pickup truck barreled down on him he was 1254 00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:36,810 actually at the Roy at the rise of a 1255 00:55:43,700 --> 00:55:40,410 hill and she hands on his brakes and and 1256 00:55:45,230 --> 00:55:43,710 basically hit him he went rolling down 1257 00:55:47,930 --> 00:55:45,240 the street his mother started screaming 1258 00:55:48,590 --> 00:55:47,940 the guy in the trucks it I God where did 1259 00:55:52,580 --> 00:55:48,600 he come from 1260 00:55:55,910 --> 00:55:52,590 and the next thing the kid knew was he 1261 00:55:58,700 --> 00:55:55,920 was back on the object and they were 1262 00:56:01,640 --> 00:55:58,710 working on him these beings and they 1263 00:56:03,290 --> 00:56:01,650 said told him that that they had to take 1264 00:56:05,630 --> 00:56:03,300 him out of his body and put him in 1265 00:56:06,319 --> 00:56:05,640 somebody else's body in order to repair 1266 00:56:10,699 --> 00:56:06,329 him and 1267 00:56:12,769 --> 00:56:10,709 and so they did that and he told he told 1268 00:56:14,479 --> 00:56:12,779 him put me back in my body he was 1269 00:56:17,779 --> 00:56:14,489 anxious about that put me back in my 1270 00:56:19,969 --> 00:56:17,789 body and anyway eventually they did and 1271 00:56:21,199 --> 00:56:19,979 then they all returned back to the car 1272 00:56:23,839 --> 00:56:21,209 and went home and forgot the entire 1273 00:56:27,079 --> 00:56:23,849 event and I told him well you know I 1274 00:56:29,509 --> 00:56:27,089 thought that it's a very interesting my 1275 00:56:32,390 --> 00:56:29,519 sense though is that a kid who's five or 1276 00:56:34,910 --> 00:56:32,400 four whatever is not going to say put me 1277 00:56:37,640 --> 00:56:34,920 back in my body yeah I was going to say 1278 00:56:44,900 --> 00:56:37,650 his my sense is that a kid is going to 1279 00:56:46,910 --> 00:56:44,910 say that's what a kid's gonna say and I 1280 00:56:50,689 --> 00:56:46,920 just I'd never heard anything like that 1281 00:56:52,999 --> 00:56:50,699 before and so I told him that I just I 1282 00:56:55,249 --> 00:56:53,009 just you know we have to be very careful 1283 00:56:56,949 --> 00:56:55,259 with that story it's you know it doesn't 1284 00:56:59,539 --> 00:56:56,959 match anything I've ever heard and and 1285 00:57:00,949 --> 00:56:59,549 and he was sort of huffy about it you 1286 00:57:04,729 --> 00:57:00,959 know he thought that that was exactly 1287 00:57:06,439 --> 00:57:04,739 what happened but I didn't and so I do 1288 00:57:08,479 --> 00:57:06,449 think that there are things have that 1289 00:57:10,819 --> 00:57:08,489 the hypnotist has to be responsible in 1290 00:57:12,859 --> 00:57:10,829 terms of about in terms of hearing 1291 00:57:16,429 --> 00:57:12,869 things that nobody else has ever said 1292 00:57:19,309 --> 00:57:16,439 before and it doesn't become evidence 1293 00:57:21,109 --> 00:57:19,319 then and and when you do hypnosis as bud 1294 00:57:23,479 --> 00:57:21,119 knows and and it's all a series of my 1295 00:57:25,729 --> 00:57:23,489 hypnotist know you ask a series of 1296 00:57:27,589 --> 00:57:25,739 questions that are calculated to find 1297 00:57:29,809 --> 00:57:27,599 out whether a person is vulnerable and 1298 00:57:32,749 --> 00:57:29,819 will be led and will indulge and 1299 00:57:34,789 --> 00:57:32,759 confabulation and that sort of thing and 1300 00:57:36,769 --> 00:57:34,799 and they're very subtle questions that 1301 00:57:38,419 --> 00:57:36,779 have been worked out over the years so 1302 00:57:41,029 --> 00:57:38,429 it's not like we're just going in blind 1303 00:57:42,410 --> 00:57:41,039 believing everything that we hear you 1304 00:57:45,919 --> 00:57:42,420 want to have a response that Kevin 1305 00:57:47,749 --> 00:57:45,929 before we split for the hour break I 1306 00:57:50,870 --> 00:57:47,759 want to know what do you think about the 1307 00:57:53,179 --> 00:57:50,880 process of hypnotic regression yes sir I 1308 00:57:55,459 --> 00:57:53,189 don't think it's a very very good tool 1309 00:57:58,069 --> 00:57:55,469 for an investigation I think it's too 1310 00:58:00,679 --> 00:57:58,079 easy to lead people I think it's I think 1311 00:58:02,929 --> 00:58:00,689 that people have a real if they wish to 1312 00:58:06,319 --> 00:58:02,939 they don't wish but they are prone to 1313 00:58:08,569 --> 00:58:06,329 please the operator and even the most 1314 00:58:11,329 --> 00:58:08,579 basic benign question and can subtly 1315 00:58:13,910 --> 00:58:11,339 lead somebody in a direction and we can 1316 00:58:17,359 --> 00:58:13,920 see that in lots of different arenas we 1317 00:58:19,620 --> 00:58:17,369 see it all the time but you you have to 1318 00:58:21,180 --> 00:58:19,630 back everything up with some kind of 1319 00:58:23,790 --> 00:58:21,190 creet evidence if we take a look at the 1320 00:58:26,160 --> 00:58:23,800 satanic ritual abuse phenomenon that was 1321 00:58:29,670 --> 00:58:26,170 prevalent in the 90s we see an awful lot 1322 00:58:31,620 --> 00:58:29,680 of people undergoing hypnotic regression 1323 00:58:34,470 --> 00:58:31,630 and remembering these horrific memories 1324 00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:34,480 of satanic ritual abuse and yet no 1325 00:58:40,770 --> 00:58:38,170 physical evidence ever ever surfaced to 1326 00:58:44,400 --> 00:58:40,780 show that there were widespread satanic 1327 00:58:45,900 --> 00:58:44,410 groups cults out there committing all 1328 00:58:48,900 --> 00:58:45,910 these sorts of crimes and we have Keith 1329 00:58:52,140 --> 00:58:48,910 learned you know for for those sorts of 1330 00:58:56,310 --> 00:58:52,150 things even though the evidence did not 1331 00:59:00,900 --> 00:58:56,320 support it and and a lot of the data was 1332 00:59:03,350 --> 00:59:00,910 was retrieved through various hypnotic 1333 00:59:07,350 --> 00:59:03,360 regression techniques we'll return with 1334 00:59:09,030 --> 00:59:07,360 the very cast abduction roundtable we 1335 00:59:11,700 --> 00:59:09,040 have Christopher O Brien as my co-host 1336 00:59:14,310 --> 00:59:11,710 dr. David Jacobs Kevin Randall but 1337 00:59:17,750 --> 00:59:14,320 Hopkins more on the other side of the 1338 00:59:22,960 --> 00:59:20,190 [Music] 1339 00:59:25,720 --> 00:59:22,970 hey neighbors would you like to see the 1340 00:59:27,430 --> 00:59:25,730 power cast live long and prosper well if 1341 00:59:29,770 --> 00:59:27,440 you know of anyone who wants to 1342 00:59:31,930 --> 00:59:29,780 advertise their products or services on 1343 00:59:34,630 --> 00:59:31,940 the power cast have them contact us 1344 00:59:36,370 --> 00:59:34,640 directly tell them to write to sales at 1345 00:59:42,609 --> 00:59:36,380 the para cast com 1346 00:59:44,980 --> 00:59:42,619 we also accept your donations by PayPal 1347 00:59:48,550 --> 00:59:44,990 send your PayPal donation to the same 1348 00:59:51,520 --> 00:59:48,560 address sales at Lapera cast calm at 1349 00:59:58,200 --> 00:59:51,530 sales at the power cast calm and thanks 1350 01:00:02,950 --> 01:00:00,789 we have the ultimate abduction 1351 01:00:04,930 --> 01:00:02,960 roundtable christopher o'brien is my 1352 01:00:07,059 --> 01:00:04,940 special guest co-host we're featuring 1353 01:00:10,029 --> 01:00:07,069 Kevin Randle dr. David Jacobs 1354 01:00:12,430 --> 01:00:10,039 and Budd Hopkins and Kevin before the 1355 01:00:14,829 --> 01:00:12,440 early break expressed concerns about the 1356 01:00:17,589 --> 01:00:14,839 value of using hypnotic regression bud 1357 01:00:20,230 --> 01:00:17,599 your response well he used a very 1358 01:00:24,789 --> 01:00:20,240 interesting example the whole situation 1359 01:00:27,910 --> 01:00:24,799 of the sort of sad for satanic ritual 1360 01:00:30,309 --> 01:00:27,920 abuse which we knew about quite some 1361 01:00:33,039 --> 01:00:30,319 time ago that it was came and went and 1362 01:00:34,930 --> 01:00:33,049 tremendous amount of damage and it dosis 1363 01:00:38,470 --> 01:00:34,940 was involved but the interesting thing 1364 01:00:41,039 --> 01:00:38,480 there is that when somebody comes to a 1365 01:00:44,140 --> 01:00:41,049 day for myself or another investigator 1366 01:00:45,999 --> 01:00:44,150 they're already assuming that they had 1367 01:00:49,809 --> 01:00:46,009 some kind of weird spirits they can't 1368 01:00:52,660 --> 01:00:49,819 explain as examples of dimension already 1369 01:00:55,150 --> 01:00:52,670 by Dave gourmet so he knows there's 1370 01:00:57,700 --> 01:00:55,160 something some problem but with the 1371 01:01:01,299 --> 01:00:57,710 ritual satanic abuse people are going to 1372 01:01:04,210 --> 01:01:01,309 therapist for some other kind of issue 1373 01:01:06,789 --> 01:01:04,220 of the self-esteem problems or whatever 1374 01:01:11,440 --> 01:01:06,799 it was and the therapist who was the 1375 01:01:15,999 --> 01:01:11,450 believer in the satanic cult idea said 1376 01:01:19,269 --> 01:01:16,009 no no you just a matter of what you say 1377 01:01:22,960 --> 01:01:19,279 it is a drinking problem or some some 1378 01:01:26,049 --> 01:01:22,970 mundane kind of emotional problem but 1379 01:01:28,480 --> 01:01:26,059 you were a victim of this whole kind of 1380 01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:28,490 thing world of incest whatever and the 1381 01:01:33,009 --> 01:01:30,410 person would say no and they would say 1382 01:01:34,690 --> 01:01:33,019 it's because you really had really 1383 01:01:37,990 --> 01:01:34,700 happened that you're fighting it so much 1384 01:01:39,819 --> 01:01:38,000 and they would eventually try to 1385 01:01:41,890 --> 01:01:39,829 persuade the person that they have 1386 01:01:44,230 --> 01:01:41,900 really been the victim when there was 1387 01:01:46,269 --> 01:01:44,240 actually no recollection of the person 1388 01:01:48,400 --> 01:01:46,279 had brought in to start with and then 1389 01:01:49,930 --> 01:01:48,410 put them under hypnosis and sort of more 1390 01:01:52,870 --> 01:01:49,940 or less force them to come up with 1391 01:01:55,029 --> 01:01:52,880 imagery now that whole thing of course 1392 01:01:57,670 --> 01:01:55,039 is totally reprehensible of what 1393 01:01:59,829 --> 01:01:57,680 eventually happens we know is that many 1394 01:02:01,960 --> 01:01:59,839 of these people realized after this if 1395 01:02:04,480 --> 01:02:01,970 they were accusing some member of their 1396 01:02:07,210 --> 01:02:04,490 family was of incest or whatever they'd 1397 01:02:10,360 --> 01:02:07,220 never happened and the families was sort 1398 01:02:11,920 --> 01:02:10,370 of torn up these people eventually 1399 01:02:14,580 --> 01:02:11,930 turned on the therapist realized the 1400 01:02:17,950 --> 01:02:14,590 whole idea had been planted and 1401 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:17,960 obviously you know what to get very good 1402 01:02:23,920 --> 01:02:21,050 and so forth sued therapist and many 1403 01:02:26,620 --> 01:02:23,930 therapists lost a lot of lawsuits on 1404 01:02:29,110 --> 01:02:26,630 this or settled out of court this is a 1405 01:02:32,590 --> 01:02:29,120 case in what happens if somebody has an 1406 01:02:34,480 --> 01:02:32,600 agenda and somebody is just trying to be 1407 01:02:36,430 --> 01:02:34,490 led into it they had to force these 1408 01:02:38,830 --> 01:02:36,440 people really should many sessions 1409 01:02:43,540 --> 01:02:38,840 sometimes to come up with this material 1410 01:02:46,900 --> 01:02:43,550 and so eventually there were enormous 1411 01:02:49,510 --> 01:02:46,910 problems which somehow were attached to 1412 01:02:53,110 --> 01:02:49,520 the process of their doses rather than 1413 01:02:55,120 --> 01:02:53,120 to the forcible that foreseeable agenda 1414 01:02:58,270 --> 01:02:55,130 actually by the therapist on the 1415 01:03:01,660 --> 01:02:58,280 individual my feeling here is that 1416 01:03:04,390 --> 01:03:01,670 hypnosis is very much like just regular 1417 01:03:07,750 --> 01:03:04,400 questioning I don't really see the huge 1418 01:03:09,460 --> 01:03:07,760 difference except the person who has 1419 01:03:12,690 --> 01:03:09,470 been hypnotized it's in a very relaxed 1420 01:03:16,840 --> 01:03:12,700 state but you can you can lead somebody 1421 01:03:19,270 --> 01:03:16,850 into some conclusion that it's a 1422 01:03:22,420 --> 01:03:19,280 completely false one just a normal 1423 01:03:24,940 --> 01:03:22,430 conversation the great thing about many 1424 01:03:27,270 --> 01:03:24,950 defense lawyers and so forth is that 1425 01:03:30,610 --> 01:03:27,280 they could take it and somebody who's 1426 01:03:33,700 --> 01:03:30,620 they're trying to defend they can ask 1427 01:03:35,470 --> 01:03:33,710 questions of the accusing witness in 1428 01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:35,480 such a way that they're forcing that 1429 01:03:42,070 --> 01:03:39,530 person into a position where his whole I 1430 01:03:44,650 --> 01:03:42,080 gave what had happened disappears though 1431 01:03:47,320 --> 01:03:44,660 hypnosis involved but the idea of 1432 01:03:51,540 --> 01:03:47,330 forcing false ideas into somebody's mind 1433 01:03:54,850 --> 01:03:51,550 if something is not limited get analysis 1434 01:03:57,820 --> 01:03:54,860 there are too many positive outcomes 1435 01:04:02,080 --> 01:03:57,830 with hypnosis that actually established 1436 01:04:07,270 --> 01:04:02,090 for a fact and it works to have any kind 1437 01:04:11,170 --> 01:04:07,280 of you know blanket attack on it so it's 1438 01:04:12,760 --> 01:04:11,180 it's to me I think it's unfortunate as 1439 01:04:16,360 --> 01:04:12,770 they've said that we have to use it but 1440 01:04:18,370 --> 01:04:16,370 it's one way to fill in the blanks in 1441 01:04:19,750 --> 01:04:18,380 the person's experience UFO experience 1442 01:04:20,770 --> 01:04:19,760 it's a good thing we don't have any 1443 01:04:22,840 --> 01:04:20,780 lawyers that are out there 1444 01:04:27,870 --> 01:04:22,850 touting themselves as abduction research 1445 01:04:31,000 --> 01:04:29,530 researchers who made you've taken 1446 01:04:33,160 --> 01:04:31,010 somebody who believed they had been 1447 01:04:35,320 --> 01:04:33,170 satanic literally abused and change 1448 01:04:42,280 --> 01:04:35,330 their opinions into claiming they had 1449 01:04:43,660 --> 01:04:42,290 been abducted any abduction researchers 1450 01:04:45,370 --> 01:04:43,670 who have taken people who maybe thought 1451 01:04:47,830 --> 01:04:45,380 they had been satanic literally abused 1452 01:04:50,590 --> 01:04:47,840 and change them into abductees well I'm 1453 01:04:53,080 --> 01:04:50,600 not changing them turkeys the people who 1454 01:04:56,380 --> 01:04:53,090 mean I never had anybody come to me 1455 01:04:58,300 --> 01:04:56,390 thinking they had been victims of the 1456 01:05:02,920 --> 01:04:58,310 satanic abuse or anything like that 1457 01:05:04,210 --> 01:05:02,930 I had people who had experiences that 1458 01:05:08,350 --> 01:05:04,220 they thought might have been 1459 01:05:12,880 --> 01:05:08,360 it's incestuous experiences where as we 1460 01:05:16,390 --> 01:05:12,890 look into them by the tail turned out to 1461 01:05:19,540 --> 01:05:16,400 not be involved with anything incestuous 1462 01:05:23,470 --> 01:05:19,550 but actually it turned out to be an 1463 01:05:25,510 --> 01:05:23,480 abduction experience which again there's 1464 01:05:30,990 --> 01:05:25,520 other abduction experiences you know art 1465 01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:34,480 not necessarily to you or to dr. Jacobs 1466 01:05:39,070 --> 01:05:36,050 but I'm thinking of a specific 1467 01:05:43,150 --> 01:05:39,080 California researchers we did that it's 1468 01:05:45,190 --> 01:05:43,160 a little I'm sorry it's hard to hear you 1469 01:05:48,910 --> 01:05:45,200 did your thing in the Californian 1470 01:05:50,830 --> 01:05:48,920 situation researcher in California who 1471 01:05:54,010 --> 01:05:50,840 lost his lights and because people had 1472 01:05:56,040 --> 01:05:54,020 come to him believing seriously believe 1473 01:05:59,110 --> 01:05:56,050 me botanically ritually abused and 1474 01:06:03,490 --> 01:05:59,120 guided them into belief in alien 1475 01:06:04,750 --> 01:06:03,500 abduction oh yeah using hypnosis and 1476 01:06:07,240 --> 01:06:04,760 when somebody says well I can't get 1477 01:06:09,190 --> 01:06:07,250 anything Lisa will make it up so I'm not 1478 01:06:10,630 --> 01:06:09,200 suggesting you can eyes engage in that 1479 01:06:14,050 --> 01:06:10,640 I'm suggesting that when we're looking 1480 01:06:16,300 --> 01:06:14,060 at the totality of alien abduction 1481 01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:16,310 research we're getting an awful lot of 1482 01:06:23,340 --> 01:06:20,210 stuff in there that that is contaminated 1483 01:06:30,010 --> 01:06:26,800 points I get shouted down yeah well I 1484 01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:30,020 think it that that's another reason as 1485 01:06:34,070 --> 01:06:32,610 Dave and Chris had suggested that we 1486 01:06:36,920 --> 01:06:34,080 you should have this far most 1487 01:06:39,890 --> 01:06:36,930 standardize it is to avoid that one of 1488 01:06:42,040 --> 01:06:39,900 the basic methods that I use and I 1489 01:06:45,500 --> 01:06:42,050 hesitate ever to talk about this because 1490 01:06:47,810 --> 01:06:45,510 it's too useful than any rate when a 1491 01:06:50,710 --> 01:06:47,820 person is very relaxed and and I'm 1492 01:06:53,420 --> 01:06:50,720 asking a question often question is 1493 01:06:56,420 --> 01:06:53,430 what's happening now or whatever 1494 01:07:02,740 --> 01:06:56,430 something very neutral but often I will 1495 01:07:04,490 --> 01:07:02,750 slip in a false lead and I don't want to 1496 01:07:06,260 --> 01:07:04,500 explain it anymore 1497 01:07:08,990 --> 01:07:06,270 and hitting more about that except that 1498 01:07:12,290 --> 01:07:09,000 in one case a little boy this is just a 1499 01:07:14,300 --> 01:07:12,300 conversation thin-walled hypnosis but he 1500 01:07:16,610 --> 01:07:14,310 had been telling me about these are the 1501 01:07:21,940 --> 01:07:16,620 people in the room and this is part of a 1502 01:07:24,890 --> 01:07:21,950 very long complex family story - he was 1503 01:07:27,110 --> 01:07:24,900 up to the beam of light he went into 1504 01:07:28,910 --> 01:07:27,120 this round thing and so forth and it was 1505 01:07:30,380 --> 01:07:28,920 sounding he was very frightened it 1506 01:07:33,170 --> 01:07:30,390 sounded earned just like a little 1507 01:07:35,000 --> 01:07:33,180 abduction of course but anyway he said 1508 01:07:37,640 --> 01:07:35,010 he went into this room and I said well 1509 01:07:40,100 --> 01:07:37,650 this lounge space where there was a 1510 01:07:42,650 --> 01:07:40,110 table and I said well let's stop right 1511 01:07:43,910 --> 01:07:42,660 here this is very very important I have 1512 01:07:46,010 --> 01:07:43,920 a very important question 1513 01:07:48,200 --> 01:07:46,020 let me take you into that room they 1514 01:07:51,110 --> 01:07:48,210 always give you something to eat first 1515 01:07:53,630 --> 01:07:51,120 now what did they give you of course 1516 01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:53,640 they don't give anybody anything B and 1517 01:07:58,820 --> 01:07:56,010 this was a child looks great but plexus 1518 01:08:00,080 --> 01:07:58,830 is normal conversation and very sad and 1519 01:08:02,780 --> 01:08:00,090 he said well they didn't give me 1520 01:08:07,250 --> 01:08:02,790 anything to eat you know which was of 1521 01:08:10,880 --> 01:08:07,260 course a very nice little test just a 1522 01:08:14,420 --> 01:08:10,890 simple invented child story that brings 1523 01:08:16,550 --> 01:08:14,430 up a point that I wanted to make and 1524 01:08:17,900 --> 01:08:16,560 that is I've been I've been listening to 1525 01:08:19,250 --> 01:08:17,910 this and I one of the things that I've 1526 01:08:22,130 --> 01:08:19,260 always wondered is how come there are no 1527 01:08:24,500 --> 01:08:22,140 there are not reports of people needing 1528 01:08:26,690 --> 01:08:24,510 to use the lavatory while there they've 1529 01:08:28,190 --> 01:08:26,700 been gone for X amount of time the first 1530 01:08:29,840 --> 01:08:28,200 thing that happens to me in the morning 1531 01:08:34,190 --> 01:08:29,850 when I wake up is I gotta go to the 1532 01:08:39,130 --> 01:08:34,200 bathroom and I don't know have you guys 1533 01:08:45,459 --> 01:08:43,580 there has one woman was abducted and she 1534 01:08:47,019 --> 01:08:45,469 told them that she had the urinate 1535 01:08:49,390 --> 01:08:47,029 these in the know don't don't worry 1536 01:08:52,450 --> 01:08:49,400 about it Sony is there okay and she just 1537 01:08:56,890 --> 01:08:52,460 urinated in the hallway and so the 1538 01:09:00,789 --> 01:08:56,900 aliens don't have bathrooms not that 1539 01:09:02,829 --> 01:09:00,799 I've ever seen then she looked back and 1540 01:09:07,149 --> 01:09:02,839 she saw somebody cleaning up the year 1541 01:09:10,419 --> 01:09:07,159 but that does happen and it what happens 1542 01:09:12,579 --> 01:09:10,429 more is that is that they're abducted is 1543 01:09:14,109 --> 01:09:12,589 less to say if it is at night and 1544 01:09:16,149 --> 01:09:14,119 they're not wearing their glasses and 1545 01:09:17,829 --> 01:09:16,159 they'll complain why like yeah you know 1546 01:09:20,709 --> 01:09:17,839 I have my guesses on so it's hard for me 1547 01:09:22,089 --> 01:09:20,719 to see you know and in dream material 1548 01:09:24,849 --> 01:09:22,099 it's not hard for anybody to see 1549 01:09:27,069 --> 01:09:24,859 anything but this is this is this is one 1550 01:09:31,439 --> 01:09:27,079 the problem that I run into far more 1551 01:09:34,660 --> 01:09:31,449 often I had a case they were a woman 1552 01:09:37,269 --> 01:09:34,670 remember this is a little girl she had 1553 01:09:41,169 --> 01:09:37,279 been taken along with her little sister 1554 01:09:44,739 --> 01:09:41,179 who was something like two or three and 1555 01:09:46,209 --> 01:09:44,749 when she was in the craft and course she 1556 01:09:49,689 --> 01:09:46,219 was the only flight and so was her 1557 01:09:52,120 --> 01:09:49,699 little sister and that she said that she 1558 01:09:54,069 --> 01:09:52,130 looked over and very embarrassed because 1559 01:09:59,319 --> 01:09:54,079 the little sister was there an ad on the 1560 01:10:01,270 --> 01:09:59,329 floor you have cases like that but we 1561 01:10:03,430 --> 01:10:01,280 don't know what happens in something 1562 01:10:08,680 --> 01:10:03,440 like because Travis Walton case and five 1563 01:10:10,540 --> 01:10:08,690 out of five days but I just wanted to 1564 01:10:12,549 --> 01:10:10,550 get a case that was five days and and 1565 01:10:15,459 --> 01:10:12,559 the woman indicated that day that they 1566 01:10:17,469 --> 01:10:15,469 used the catheter on her and and just 1567 01:10:19,660 --> 01:10:17,479 pressed on her abdomen I guess and she's 1568 01:10:21,569 --> 01:10:19,670 able to urinate that way so the aliens 1569 01:10:24,879 --> 01:10:21,579 therefore do not have a standard 1570 01:10:26,790 --> 01:10:24,889 bathroom or biological waste system 1571 01:10:31,779 --> 01:10:26,800 perhaps 1572 01:10:37,910 --> 01:10:35,779 is there a secret UFO agenda to strange 1573 01:10:40,430 --> 01:10:37,920 creatures from the darkest corners of 1574 01:10:43,189 --> 01:10:40,440 the mind roam the earth is there 1575 01:10:46,549 --> 01:10:43,199 evidence for mind control time travel or 1576 01:10:48,169 --> 01:10:46,559 devious government conspiracies find out 1577 01:10:51,169 --> 01:10:48,179 the inside scoop on the latest 1578 01:10:53,870 --> 01:10:51,179 conspiracies Paranormal Activity and at 1579 01:10:56,180 --> 01:10:53,880 14 phenomena when you subscribe to Tim 1580 01:10:59,000 --> 01:10:56,190 Beckley's conspiracy girl it's 1581 01:11:01,580 --> 01:10:59,010 jam-packed with stories special book and 1582 01:11:04,040 --> 01:11:01,590 DVD promotions and the best news is 1583 01:11:06,919 --> 01:11:04,050 absolutely free sent right to your 1584 01:11:10,490 --> 01:11:06,929 mailbox plus a bonus free email 1585 01:11:12,350 --> 01:11:10,500 newsletter sent out every Friday simply 1586 01:11:17,000 --> 01:11:12,360 send an email with your name and address 1587 01:11:21,680 --> 01:11:17,010 to Mister UFO at what TV net attached to 1588 01:11:26,550 --> 01:11:21,690 mr. UFO at web TV dotnet find out what 1589 01:11:31,360 --> 01:11:28,410 [Music] 1590 01:11:33,130 --> 01:11:31,370 we want to hear from you if you have a 1591 01:11:36,670 --> 01:11:33,140 comment or question about the pair cast 1592 01:11:39,820 --> 01:11:36,680 send it to news at the pair cast com 1593 01:11:41,800 --> 01:11:39,830 that's news at the pair cast calm and 1594 01:11:43,510 --> 01:11:41,810 don't forget to visit our forums where 1595 01:11:46,060 --> 01:11:43,520 you can talk to fellow listeners just go 1596 01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:46,070 to the para cast comm and click on the 1597 01:11:58,090 --> 01:11:48,530 forum links that's the forum links at 1598 01:12:00,280 --> 01:11:58,100 the para cast comm Budd Hopkins Kevin 1599 01:12:01,750 --> 01:12:00,290 Randall dr. David Jacobs joining us for 1600 01:12:04,690 --> 01:12:01,760 an ultimate abduction Remington 1601 01:12:06,250 --> 01:12:04,700 Christopher Orion is my co-host and 1602 01:12:08,890 --> 01:12:06,260 we're exploring a lot of the 1603 01:12:11,320 --> 01:12:08,900 implications here now one of the things 1604 01:12:13,600 --> 01:12:11,330 that comes out of left field here is the 1605 01:12:15,700 --> 01:12:13,610 fact that we tend to take what they say 1606 01:12:18,370 --> 01:12:15,710 at face value of these must be aliens 1607 01:12:20,950 --> 01:12:18,380 maybe we have hybrids etc but when you 1608 01:12:22,750 --> 01:12:20,960 read books from Jacques filet and others 1609 01:12:25,300 --> 01:12:22,760 you get the impression that when we 1610 01:12:28,870 --> 01:12:25,310 encounter other intelligences there's a 1611 01:12:31,600 --> 01:12:28,880 lot of deception involved why should we 1612 01:12:33,910 --> 01:12:31,610 dr. David Jacobs assume that what 1613 01:12:38,740 --> 01:12:33,920 they're telling us is a literal truth 1614 01:12:44,380 --> 01:12:38,750 well now I'm not gonna differ a little 1615 01:12:45,729 --> 01:12:44,390 bit on the situation by the way we can 1616 01:12:48,190 --> 01:12:45,739 allow you both if you want to disagree 1617 01:12:51,720 --> 01:12:48,200 that's what it's all about go ahead what 1618 01:12:53,620 --> 01:12:51,730 are you saying why why we take AB 15 as 1619 01:12:56,229 --> 01:12:53,630 materialization value or why we take 1620 01:12:58,330 --> 01:12:56,239 what aliens say is face value why do we 1621 01:13:00,010 --> 01:12:58,340 take any advances value how do we know 1622 01:13:04,870 --> 01:13:00,020 it's not all deception of one sort or 1623 01:13:06,850 --> 01:13:04,880 another right well for me for me there 1624 01:13:09,130 --> 01:13:06,860 are there are certain areas of 1625 01:13:13,140 --> 01:13:09,140 confabulation that I'm very very careful 1626 01:13:15,760 --> 01:13:13,150 about number one is description of 1627 01:13:18,930 --> 01:13:15,770 aliens or what they look like and this 1628 01:13:22,930 --> 01:13:18,940 happens particularly in the early going 1629 01:13:24,250 --> 01:13:22,940 early sessions but the number two area 1630 01:13:27,220 --> 01:13:24,260 of confabulation 1631 01:13:29,979 --> 01:13:27,230 is recounting alien dialogue the problem 1632 01:13:33,940 --> 01:13:29,989 here is if all communication is 1633 01:13:37,990 --> 01:13:33,950 everybody reports is telepathic between 1634 01:13:38,720 --> 01:13:38,000 aliens and humans and and I said well 1635 01:13:40,970 --> 01:13:38,730 what do you 1636 01:13:42,260 --> 01:13:40,980 by telepathy honey honey well if you 1637 01:13:44,870 --> 01:13:42,270 sense that and they say well I get an 1638 01:13:46,520 --> 01:13:44,880 impression in my mind which converts it 1639 01:13:50,300 --> 01:13:46,530 to words and I know I have to get up on 1640 01:13:53,330 --> 01:13:50,310 the table well the problem then is what 1641 01:13:55,220 --> 01:13:53,340 what prevents a person from getting an 1642 01:13:58,430 --> 01:13:55,230 impression in their mind from their own 1643 01:14:00,800 --> 01:13:58,440 thoughts confusing it from as coming 1644 01:14:03,740 --> 01:14:00,810 from outside of their mind and then 1645 01:14:06,710 --> 01:14:03,750 telling me that that is what the aliens 1646 01:14:09,800 --> 01:14:06,720 told him or her and the answer is 1647 01:14:11,840 --> 01:14:09,810 nothing nothing prevents that at all and 1648 01:14:14,960 --> 01:14:11,850 people will in fact do that especially 1649 01:14:17,330 --> 01:14:14,970 in early sessions I found anyway so 1650 01:14:19,370 --> 01:14:17,340 that's a that's a red flag area when 1651 01:14:20,750 --> 01:14:19,380 when they tell me what the alien said to 1652 01:14:22,460 --> 01:14:20,760 them unless it's something like get up 1653 01:14:24,290 --> 01:14:22,470 on the table or we're not going or stuff 1654 01:14:27,830 --> 01:14:24,300 that we hear constantly and all the time 1655 01:14:31,940 --> 01:14:27,840 and but if it's the wisdom of the 1656 01:14:33,140 --> 01:14:31,950 universe or their their plans for what 1657 01:14:36,110 --> 01:14:33,150 they're going to do with human just like 1658 01:14:38,690 --> 01:14:36,120 that I just I wait for confirming you 1659 01:14:41,090 --> 01:14:38,700 know I I put that on the back burner I'm 1660 01:14:43,910 --> 01:14:41,100 very very very very wary of that and I'm 1661 01:14:46,430 --> 01:14:43,920 very careful about that because because 1662 01:14:48,080 --> 01:14:46,440 people can't be believed at all times as 1663 01:14:49,370 --> 01:14:48,090 I said before they will confetti like 1664 01:14:51,620 --> 01:14:49,380 they will say things that are that are 1665 01:14:54,440 --> 01:14:51,630 not true and it's up to the competence 1666 01:14:57,410 --> 01:14:54,450 hypnotist to understand that and to be 1667 01:14:59,120 --> 01:14:57,420 able to say well this is not quite 1668 01:15:00,920 --> 01:14:59,130 evidence yet until other people 1669 01:15:03,470 --> 01:15:00,930 preferably lots of more people say 1670 01:15:05,990 --> 01:15:03,480 exactly the same thing but even then how 1671 01:15:08,750 --> 01:15:06,000 do we know it isn't all some form of 1672 01:15:11,210 --> 01:15:08,760 deception that the aliens whatever 1673 01:15:13,570 --> 01:15:11,220 forces behind these things how do we 1674 01:15:16,760 --> 01:15:13,580 know that this isn't just some kind of 1675 01:15:18,470 --> 01:15:16,770 message they want to deliver to make 1676 01:15:19,910 --> 01:15:18,480 people think this is what's happening 1677 01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:19,920 but we have no way of knowing the 1678 01:15:26,030 --> 01:15:22,170 underlying truth do we all right well 1679 01:15:28,160 --> 01:15:26,040 from what I found and most of the gray 1680 01:15:29,450 --> 01:15:28,170 aliens don't do an awful lot of talking 1681 01:15:32,990 --> 01:15:29,460 and when they do it's not very 1682 01:15:35,180 --> 01:15:33,000 substantive they're very very I'm gonna 1683 01:15:39,020 --> 01:15:35,190 say closed mouth but you mean word mouth 1684 01:15:41,030 --> 01:15:39,030 that probably doesn't apply but they're 1685 01:15:41,930 --> 01:15:41,040 not forthcoming about what sure buddy 1686 01:15:45,410 --> 01:15:41,940 but 1687 01:15:47,570 --> 01:15:45,420 they're aliens how do we know that that 1688 01:15:49,580 --> 01:15:47,580 is a real thing well what you're looking 1689 01:15:52,940 --> 01:15:49,590 at of course is the preponderance of 1690 01:15:55,700 --> 01:15:52,950 evidence over a long period of time now 1691 01:15:57,410 --> 01:15:55,710 you have to understand that that that 1692 01:15:58,940 --> 01:15:57,420 button I know that there's a strong 1693 01:16:01,280 --> 01:15:58,950 physicality involved with these 1694 01:16:02,840 --> 01:16:01,290 abduction events people are physically 1695 01:16:04,370 --> 01:16:02,850 missing from that normal environments 1696 01:16:07,670 --> 01:16:04,380 when they're abducted people are 1697 01:16:09,320 --> 01:16:07,680 abducted in groups people return wearing 1698 01:16:10,850 --> 01:16:09,330 other people's clothes with they're 1699 01:16:13,430 --> 01:16:10,860 wearing that without their own clothes 1700 01:16:18,170 --> 01:16:13,440 with unusual marks and scars and even 1701 01:16:19,460 --> 01:16:18,180 broken bones in their body and and they 1702 01:16:21,020 --> 01:16:19,470 don't know how they got it and I am 1703 01:16:21,410 --> 01:16:21,030 believe me if suddenly you had a broken 1704 01:16:23,530 --> 01:16:21,420 arm 1705 01:16:26,480 --> 01:16:23,540 I think you'd remember how you got it 1706 01:16:28,700 --> 01:16:26,490 and but this is not the case with AB 1707 01:16:30,680 --> 01:16:28,710 Ducky's and then there's a lot of other 1708 01:16:32,570 --> 01:16:30,690 physical aspects to it as well including 1709 01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:32,580 witnesses saying seeing other people 1710 01:16:37,490 --> 01:16:33,930 being abducted and may or may not be 1711 01:16:39,320 --> 01:16:37,500 abducted themselves so against this 1712 01:16:41,060 --> 01:16:39,330 background of physicality there are 1713 01:16:43,100 --> 01:16:41,070 these experiences and people when people 1714 01:16:47,420 --> 01:16:43,110 recount their experiences they recount 1715 01:16:50,090 --> 01:16:47,430 them in really extraordinary detail not 1716 01:16:53,900 --> 01:16:50,100 always but oftentimes in extraordinary 1717 01:16:57,620 --> 01:16:53,910 detail down in precise detail down to 1718 01:16:59,300 --> 01:16:57,630 what instruments are used and and how 1719 01:17:01,880 --> 01:16:59,310 they hold this and how they do that and 1720 01:17:04,880 --> 01:17:01,890 what's happening now and they do that 1721 01:17:06,680 --> 01:17:04,890 across all abductees in other words they 1722 01:17:09,290 --> 01:17:06,690 all say the same thing if this were 1723 01:17:10,790 --> 01:17:09,300 psychological that physicality of course 1724 01:17:12,920 --> 01:17:10,800 would not be there at all I'm not 1725 01:17:14,450 --> 01:17:12,930 talking psychological David maybe you're 1726 01:17:20,450 --> 01:17:14,460 not catching where I'm going with this 1727 01:17:23,480 --> 01:17:20,460 I'm saying well I think you really say 1728 01:17:26,240 --> 01:17:23,490 is we people described seeing gray 1729 01:17:31,460 --> 01:17:26,250 aliens with big black eyes and maybe 1730 01:17:32,870 --> 01:17:31,470 they're actually huge green aliens with 1731 01:17:35,030 --> 01:17:32,880 one eye in the middle of the forehead or 1732 01:17:37,160 --> 01:17:35,040 something like that there's something 1733 01:17:39,200 --> 01:17:37,170 behind the imagery that we're showing 1734 01:17:41,300 --> 01:17:39,210 that they're really not in the US on 1735 01:17:43,130 --> 01:17:41,310 they're on Mars or something or they 1736 01:17:44,690 --> 01:17:43,140 might be on earth they might be in the 1737 01:17:48,890 --> 01:17:44,700 center of the earth with their tell 1738 01:17:50,090 --> 01:17:48,900 agrees what are they exactly I think 1739 01:17:53,410 --> 01:17:50,100 that's the kind of philosophical 1740 01:17:57,940 --> 01:17:53,420 question that really can't be answered 1741 01:18:00,820 --> 01:17:57,950 in a way because you can say that you 1742 01:18:02,920 --> 01:18:00,830 know move from the experience of the 1743 01:18:04,810 --> 01:18:02,930 abduction fish you see UFOs themselves 1744 01:18:07,810 --> 01:18:04,820 maybe they don't look like that maybe 1745 01:18:10,150 --> 01:18:07,820 they're made just in some way we are 1746 01:18:12,100 --> 01:18:10,160 made to see the mess around or trying to 1747 01:18:19,510 --> 01:18:12,110 learn whatever it is and they're really 1748 01:18:21,310 --> 01:18:19,520 something completely different or if you 1749 01:18:24,220 --> 01:18:21,320 look at the image in the movie contact 1750 01:18:26,830 --> 01:18:24,230 where the alien came to the Jodie Foster 1751 01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:26,840 character in the form of her father 1752 01:18:33,010 --> 01:18:28,970 because that was the way she'd 1753 01:18:35,890 --> 01:18:33,020 understand an exact right effort they 1754 01:18:38,650 --> 01:18:35,900 are deliberately tailoring what they 1755 01:18:41,050 --> 01:18:38,660 look like to what we expect to see and 1756 01:18:43,690 --> 01:18:41,060 we are now expect to see grey aliens 1757 01:18:46,630 --> 01:18:43,700 maybe in the 1950s who expected to see 1758 01:18:48,610 --> 01:18:46,640 the Klaatu character with the silvery 1759 01:18:51,670 --> 01:18:48,620 uniform from de Vere Stood Still as 1760 01:18:55,450 --> 01:18:51,680 George Adamski did maybe in the 15th 1761 01:18:57,880 --> 01:18:55,460 century was leprechauns well you know 1762 01:19:00,670 --> 01:18:57,890 some of these questions are impossible 1763 01:19:03,400 --> 01:19:00,680 to answer especially when you get into 1764 01:19:07,840 --> 01:19:03,410 historical situations but the point is 1765 01:19:11,320 --> 01:19:07,850 that it starts somewhere and there are 1766 01:19:14,350 --> 01:19:11,330 the grey aliens I've seen someplace and 1767 01:19:16,330 --> 01:19:14,360 then they're seen again I'm going to see 1768 01:19:18,310 --> 01:19:16,340 it again I guess you could say well 1769 01:19:20,980 --> 01:19:18,320 behind the grey aliens as other 1770 01:19:23,110 --> 01:19:20,990 different Alien Swarm or something or 1771 01:19:25,360 --> 01:19:23,120 whatever that they're just projecting 1772 01:19:27,850 --> 01:19:25,370 that image now the same way that we know 1773 01:19:30,340 --> 01:19:27,860 that they can do screen memories and 1774 01:19:32,320 --> 01:19:30,350 make a child think it's Bugs Bunny in 1775 01:19:34,990 --> 01:19:32,330 the room they're within or if somebody 1776 01:19:38,260 --> 01:19:35,000 can see auj oule or whatever we know 1777 01:19:42,400 --> 01:19:38,270 they can do that sort of thing but is 1778 01:19:45,250 --> 01:19:42,410 there any kind of rock bottom imagery 1779 01:19:46,780 --> 01:19:45,260 behind that is the real image and 1780 01:19:50,260 --> 01:19:46,790 there's no way to answer that question 1781 01:19:52,090 --> 01:19:50,270 right yeah the point is is that this is 1782 01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:52,100 the evidence we have and it's consistent 1783 01:19:58,660 --> 01:19:56,090 and it goes it's all the time it's and 1784 01:20:01,060 --> 01:19:58,670 it's it's it does not change over time 1785 01:20:03,520 --> 01:20:01,070 we haven't seen it change over over them 1786 01:20:05,440 --> 01:20:03,530 decades because of popular culture or 1787 01:20:06,580 --> 01:20:05,450 something like that obviously if that 1788 01:20:08,379 --> 01:20:06,590 were the case 1789 01:20:10,689 --> 01:20:08,389 would be reporting that but that is not 1790 01:20:13,930 --> 01:20:10,699 not what we see not not what we hear 1791 01:20:16,120 --> 01:20:13,940 well are you correct about that David 1792 01:20:18,609 --> 01:20:16,130 what if you go back a few hundred years 1793 01:20:21,070 --> 01:20:18,619 where they were seeing beings that seem 1794 01:20:24,339 --> 01:20:21,080 to be more reflective of that society I 1795 01:20:26,950 --> 01:20:24,349 mean since Barney and Betty Hill we 1796 01:20:29,680 --> 01:20:26,960 expect to see aliens don't we well 1797 01:20:34,600 --> 01:20:29,690 Barney and Eddie Hill were were already 1798 01:20:37,120 --> 01:20:34,610 a long time ago and and half century ago 1799 01:20:38,350 --> 01:20:37,130 whatever and and consequently you'd 1800 01:20:40,089 --> 01:20:38,360 think that there would be change over 1801 01:20:43,000 --> 01:20:40,099 that half century yeah well no because 1802 01:20:45,010 --> 01:20:43,010 we had Close Encounters we have et you 1803 01:20:48,459 --> 01:20:45,020 know Chris you had a question about this 1804 01:20:51,459 --> 01:20:48,469 yeah there's a few things that they 1805 01:20:53,140 --> 01:20:51,469 really come up in this regard but one of 1806 01:20:55,570 --> 01:20:53,150 the things that I've been interested in 1807 01:20:57,580 --> 01:20:55,580 finding out more from from both of you 1808 01:20:59,950 --> 01:20:57,590 is do you think that there's a 1809 01:21:01,479 --> 01:20:59,960 possibility that there's some sort of in 1810 01:21:03,550 --> 01:21:01,489 the words of Steven Greer some sort of 1811 01:21:05,859 --> 01:21:03,560 governmental or military industrial 1812 01:21:09,939 --> 01:21:05,869 complex conspiracy that may be behind a 1813 01:21:12,399 --> 01:21:09,949 portion of these cases and if so is 1814 01:21:14,560 --> 01:21:12,409 there any way to really determine I'm 1815 01:21:17,050 --> 01:21:14,570 kind of taking genes on plying genes 1816 01:21:20,350 --> 01:21:17,060 question here a little bit I you're 1817 01:21:23,109 --> 01:21:20,360 allowed yeah I I had a very interesting 1818 01:21:25,810 --> 01:21:23,119 case of a gentleman who claimed that he 1819 01:21:27,939 --> 01:21:25,820 was part of a military team that was 1820 01:21:31,180 --> 01:21:27,949 going out in the Midwest in the early to 1821 01:21:33,459 --> 01:21:31,190 mid 70s and performing what could be 1822 01:21:34,959 --> 01:21:33,469 described as classic alien abductions 1823 01:21:37,000 --> 01:21:34,969 with the help of some sort of 1824 01:21:40,870 --> 01:21:37,010 psychological warfare techniques so I 1825 01:21:42,459 --> 01:21:40,880 have you have either of you in the many 1826 01:21:44,680 --> 01:21:42,469 hundreds of cases that obviously that 1827 01:21:46,780 --> 01:21:44,690 over the last 20 plus years that you've 1828 01:21:49,149 --> 01:21:46,790 been involved with have either of you 1829 01:21:51,160 --> 01:21:49,159 seen any sort of indication that we may 1830 01:21:52,930 --> 01:21:51,170 be dealing with some sort of sleight of 1831 01:22:02,290 --> 01:21:52,940 hand on the fact of some sort of human 1832 01:22:05,200 --> 01:22:02,300 agency that would suggest a sort of a 1833 01:22:10,209 --> 01:22:05,210 mock abduction scene that was somehow 1834 01:22:13,720 --> 01:22:10,219 constructed but Betty Hill I think that 1835 01:22:15,500 --> 01:22:13,730 has indications of possibly being a mock 1836 01:22:19,850 --> 01:22:15,510 event well 1837 01:22:23,420 --> 01:22:19,860 no I don't want to go back arguing about 1838 01:22:25,820 --> 01:22:23,430 the showcases I'd rather stay with the 1839 01:22:28,540 --> 01:22:25,830 face of my own experience sir this is 1840 01:22:31,910 --> 01:22:28,550 this is an important thing I definitely 1841 01:22:36,650 --> 01:22:31,920 have found instances where there seem to 1842 01:22:40,570 --> 01:22:36,660 be some sort of interest in certain 1843 01:22:44,120 --> 01:22:40,580 abductees that would suggest a 1844 01:22:49,340 --> 01:22:44,130 governmental branch doing some kind of 1845 01:22:54,440 --> 01:22:49,350 black ops for some reason trying to the 1846 01:22:56,660 --> 01:22:54,450 case of Kathy Davis trying to I suppose 1847 01:23:00,140 --> 01:22:56,670 retrieve an implant or some such thing 1848 01:23:02,240 --> 01:23:00,150 that she remembers this thing in that's 1849 01:23:06,590 --> 01:23:02,250 consciously and it seems like there's 1850 01:23:08,720 --> 01:23:06,600 there's nothing involving a UFO or it 1851 01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:08,730 took place with normal humans and in a 1852 01:23:16,010 --> 01:23:11,610 normal sort of hospital like place and 1853 01:23:16,280 --> 01:23:16,020 so forth I heard a couple of things like 1854 01:23:21,590 --> 01:23:16,290 that 1855 01:23:24,620 --> 01:23:21,600 abduction really and so maybe a literal 1856 01:23:26,930 --> 01:23:24,630 abduction of the earthly sort but again 1857 01:23:29,180 --> 01:23:26,940 there are many cases where there seem to 1858 01:23:31,550 --> 01:23:29,190 be people who have been in the military 1859 01:23:34,100 --> 01:23:31,560 and the branches of service you have 1860 01:23:37,190 --> 01:23:34,110 abduction experiences who then were 1861 01:23:39,890 --> 01:23:37,200 interviewed later by military 1862 01:23:43,250 --> 01:23:39,900 psychiatrists and so on and fairly 1863 01:23:47,090 --> 01:23:43,260 drugged at least three cases that I've 1864 01:23:52,130 --> 01:23:47,100 worked with and then seemingly get 1865 01:23:53,810 --> 01:23:52,140 through some condoms some processes to 1866 01:23:56,180 --> 01:23:53,820 scramble the memories and scramble the 1867 01:23:58,430 --> 01:23:56,190 brains so then what comes out what they 1868 01:24:01,190 --> 01:23:58,440 talk about the next day isn't making any 1869 01:24:02,990 --> 01:24:01,200 sense really but I definitely think 1870 01:24:06,170 --> 01:24:03,000 there's an effort there down Dave and I 1871 01:24:09,680 --> 01:24:06,180 disagree on this very strongly that 1872 01:24:11,210 --> 01:24:09,690 there's a some sort of branch of the 1873 01:24:13,100 --> 01:24:11,220 government of the military whatever you 1874 01:24:16,610 --> 01:24:13,110 want to say that takes care of these 1875 01:24:18,740 --> 01:24:16,620 issues sometimes but I think that the 1876 01:24:21,920 --> 01:24:18,750 evidence that I confronted too is very 1877 01:24:24,410 --> 01:24:21,930 persuasive David your response well I 1878 01:24:26,240 --> 01:24:24,420 have not run into into that kind of 1879 01:24:28,310 --> 01:24:26,250 evidence and 1880 01:24:29,780 --> 01:24:28,320 I have run into people who think that 1881 01:24:31,580 --> 01:24:29,790 they've been abducted by the military in 1882 01:24:34,370 --> 01:24:31,590 each and I will flicked at those cases 1883 01:24:35,840 --> 01:24:34,380 and each time they realized that there 1884 01:24:37,340 --> 01:24:35,850 wasn't really the military they thought 1885 01:24:39,560 --> 01:24:37,350 it was and they remember there was being 1886 01:24:44,420 --> 01:24:39,570 I had but then they realized no it 1887 01:24:48,470 --> 01:24:44,430 wasn't so what I've often said is is 1888 01:24:51,950 --> 01:24:48,480 that I hope that the military can abduct 1889 01:24:55,850 --> 01:24:51,960 people people for example like a bin 1890 01:24:58,250 --> 01:24:55,860 laden docked him they're gonna take a 1891 01:24:59,870 --> 01:24:58,260 gun say go ahead make my day and shoot 1892 01:25:02,360 --> 01:24:59,880 him yeah I think it'd be a little bit 1893 01:25:02,900 --> 01:25:02,370 more than some sort of probing going on 1894 01:25:05,030 --> 01:25:02,910 with that guy 1895 01:25:09,110 --> 01:25:05,040 well they might do the problem and kill 1896 01:25:11,660 --> 01:25:09,120 him it certainly would be the end to 1897 01:25:13,850 --> 01:25:11,670 Wars it would that kind of power to 1898 01:25:16,640 --> 01:25:13,860 abduct people lives in the government 1899 01:25:18,410 --> 01:25:16,650 that would be and not have anybody see 1900 01:25:21,020 --> 01:25:18,420 it or know as what would would be the 1901 01:25:23,420 --> 01:25:21,030 ultimate sort of power and if anybody 1902 01:25:25,790 --> 01:25:23,430 gets it I will it's our governments and 1903 01:25:26,960 --> 01:25:25,800 not anybody else's government but in 1904 01:25:28,340 --> 01:25:26,970 other words I don't have any stake in it 1905 01:25:36,670 --> 01:25:28,350 won't worry or the other but I have not 1906 01:25:41,689 --> 01:25:38,839 [Music] 1907 01:25:43,790 --> 01:25:41,699 hi this is Tamar from Nietzsche we're a 1908 01:25:45,770 --> 01:25:43,800 domain name and web hosting company and 1909 01:25:47,779 --> 01:25:45,780 we really care about our customers with 1910 01:25:50,330 --> 01:25:47,789 domain name purchases Namecheap offers 1911 01:25:52,279 --> 01:25:50,340 free SSL and free Whois guard for a year 1912 01:25:54,080 --> 01:25:52,289 to protect your identity from spammers 1913 01:25:56,089 --> 01:25:54,090 we won't bother you with unwanted 1914 01:25:58,099 --> 01:25:56,099 messaging in your inbox or upon checkout 1915 01:26:00,290 --> 01:25:58,109 but most importantly we care about you 1916 01:26:02,479 --> 01:26:00,300 our customers your satisfaction and 1917 01:26:04,279 --> 01:26:02,489 Happiness is our primary focus because 1918 01:26:06,229 --> 01:26:04,289 your support means so much to us if 1919 01:26:08,209 --> 01:26:06,239 you'd like to learn more please visit us 1920 01:26:10,369 --> 01:26:08,219 at Radio namecheap.com 1921 01:26:12,349 --> 01:26:10,379 for web hosting and domain name specials 1922 01:26:17,869 --> 01:26:12,359 you can also follow us on twitter at 1923 01:26:19,969 --> 01:26:17,879 twitter.com/zeromd bars on facebook at 1924 01:26:20,610 --> 01:26:19,979 facebook.com slash Namecheap see you 1925 01:26:36,290 --> 01:26:20,620 online 1926 01:26:53,530 --> 01:26:44,030 [Music] 1927 01:26:59,240 --> 01:26:57,230 we have dr. David Jacobs Kevin Randall 1928 01:27:01,820 --> 01:26:59,250 but Hopkins special co-hosts is 1929 01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:01,830 Christopher O'Brien Kevin now we're into 1930 01:27:04,940 --> 01:27:03,570 the government equation what's your 1931 01:27:06,620 --> 01:27:04,950 feeling about all that do you think that 1932 01:27:08,840 --> 01:27:06,630 some of this stuff may have been staged 1933 01:27:11,600 --> 01:27:08,850 by the government no that's the short 1934 01:27:14,030 --> 01:27:11,610 answer though let's have the long model 1935 01:27:15,680 --> 01:27:14,040 it logically makes no sense the 1936 01:27:18,140 --> 01:27:15,690 government the military certainly 1937 01:27:21,320 --> 01:27:18,150 doesn't have that kind of power to 1938 01:27:23,240 --> 01:27:21,330 influence that sort of thing although we 1939 01:27:26,530 --> 01:27:23,250 have any number of people who suggest 1940 01:27:28,880 --> 01:27:26,540 that starting out with Warren from the 1941 01:27:30,200 --> 01:27:28,890 endosome case claiming all sorts of 1942 01:27:31,640 --> 01:27:30,210 things that the government did to him 1943 01:27:34,430 --> 01:27:31,650 during his eight months of military 1944 01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:34,440 service I don't I just do not see 1945 01:27:39,350 --> 01:27:36,690 anything to suggest that whatsoever 1946 01:27:41,030 --> 01:27:39,360 Corinne according to Steven Greer he's 1947 01:27:43,700 --> 01:27:41,040 the one that just keeps popping into 1948 01:27:46,100 --> 01:27:43,710 mind with this particular aspect of the 1949 01:27:48,710 --> 01:27:46,110 of the questions he seems to think that 1950 01:27:49,790 --> 01:27:48,720 all abductions are being done by the 1951 01:27:54,050 --> 01:27:49,800 government I think that's rather 1952 01:27:57,740 --> 01:27:54,060 ridiculous assertion myself but he would 1953 01:28:01,670 --> 01:27:57,750 reflect I think one side of the 1954 01:28:04,910 --> 01:28:01,680 benevolent space brothers equation that 1955 01:28:06,860 --> 01:28:04,920 would then try to you know in some way 1956 01:28:10,040 --> 01:28:06,870 shape or form put all negative 1957 01:28:12,980 --> 01:28:10,050 abductions into some sort of a boogeyman 1958 01:28:15,650 --> 01:28:12,990 military government context in order to 1959 01:28:19,940 --> 01:28:15,660 you know to have that benevolent space 1960 01:28:21,710 --> 01:28:19,950 brother type scenario I guess be you 1961 01:28:25,280 --> 01:28:21,720 know something that he could really 1962 01:28:27,440 --> 01:28:25,290 really get behind and push another thing 1963 01:28:30,230 --> 01:28:27,450 that's always kind of puzzled me about 1964 01:28:32,900 --> 01:28:30,240 this whole phenomenon is the apparent 1965 01:28:35,990 --> 01:28:32,910 level of Technology in terms of state of 1966 01:28:38,540 --> 01:28:36,000 the art oftentimes I encounter and 1967 01:28:40,220 --> 01:28:38,550 reading some of these accounts levels of 1968 01:28:42,920 --> 01:28:40,230 technology medical technology that's 1969 01:28:45,500 --> 01:28:42,930 behind we're where we are in terms of 1970 01:28:49,190 --> 01:28:45,510 our state of the art have either of you 1971 01:28:50,960 --> 01:28:49,200 noticed any sort of trending in terms of 1972 01:28:53,510 --> 01:28:50,970 the types of procedures that are being 1973 01:28:55,820 --> 01:28:53,520 performed the types of equipment that's 1974 01:28:58,430 --> 01:28:55,830 being used are we seeing any sort of 1975 01:29:00,440 --> 01:28:58,440 progression in impossibly a level of 1976 01:29:02,750 --> 01:29:00,450 technology or agenda I know David you've 1977 01:29:03,959 --> 01:29:02,760 really honed in on this whole idea of 1978 01:29:06,570 --> 01:29:03,969 hybrid 1979 01:29:10,290 --> 01:29:06,580 and that they're getting ready to do you 1980 01:29:12,930 --> 01:29:10,300 know place hybrid you know now I guess 1981 01:29:15,870 --> 01:29:12,940 you would say grown or almost fully 1982 01:29:17,790 --> 01:29:15,880 grown hybrids into the culture it has 1983 01:29:20,640 --> 01:29:17,800 it's been something that is evolved over 1984 01:29:22,589 --> 01:29:20,650 time for instance have we seen any sort 1985 01:29:25,350 --> 01:29:22,599 of progression in terms of the level of 1986 01:29:28,260 --> 01:29:25,360 Technology something about this whole 1987 01:29:29,879 --> 01:29:28,270 thing medically in terms of the actual 1988 01:29:33,000 --> 01:29:29,889 procedures that are being performed does 1989 01:29:34,890 --> 01:29:33,010 not make sense at least let me well 1990 01:29:37,470 --> 01:29:34,900 first of all there has been a 1991 01:29:39,149 --> 01:29:37,480 progression and of course you you get on 1992 01:29:42,410 --> 01:29:39,159 it for me the change over time that I 1993 01:29:46,200 --> 01:29:42,420 have seen most is is is the number of of 1994 01:29:48,660 --> 01:29:46,210 is the importance of the hybrids within 1995 01:29:52,109 --> 01:29:48,670 the abduction scenario in terms of 1996 01:29:55,379 --> 01:29:52,119 technology or medical procedures and 1997 01:29:59,430 --> 01:29:55,389 that I have not seen but what you're 1998 01:30:01,169 --> 01:29:59,440 looking at is is very advanced types of 1999 01:30:04,890 --> 01:30:01,179 procedures that are going on in other 2000 01:30:06,600 --> 01:30:04,900 words how they can examine a person just 2001 01:30:08,459 --> 01:30:06,610 by touching them with their fingers is 2002 01:30:11,070 --> 01:30:08,469 something that we cannot understand and 2003 01:30:13,530 --> 01:30:11,080 and every single machine thats ever been 2004 01:30:17,070 --> 01:30:13,540 used on an abductee we have no knowledge 2005 01:30:19,070 --> 01:30:17,080 of whatsoever i think i i was only able 2006 01:30:23,820 --> 01:30:19,080 for years i was only able to identify 2007 01:30:26,910 --> 01:30:23,830 one aspect of a medical procedure and 2008 01:30:28,500 --> 01:30:26,920 that was they were taking this many and 2009 01:30:31,589 --> 01:30:28,510 running across a person's foot enough 2010 01:30:34,560 --> 01:30:31,599 forward flex it would be a reflex test 2011 01:30:36,600 --> 01:30:34,570 of some sort and then another point i 2012 01:30:38,550 --> 01:30:36,610 was reading a book on neurological 2013 01:30:42,229 --> 01:30:38,560 examination because that's what I do for 2014 01:30:48,020 --> 01:30:42,239 fun and it sounds it's I realized 2015 01:30:50,899 --> 01:30:48,030 anything's are really fascinating I 2016 01:30:55,050 --> 01:30:50,909 realized that when reading this that a 2017 01:30:56,640 --> 01:30:55,060 procedure that was puzzling for years 2018 01:30:59,970 --> 01:30:56,650 and years that even Barney and Betty 2019 01:31:01,470 --> 01:30:59,980 alpha a bunny hill said where these 2020 01:31:03,839 --> 01:31:01,480 things would take their finger and thumb 2021 01:31:05,729 --> 01:31:03,849 and run it down his back on his further 2022 01:31:07,649 --> 01:31:05,739 break from the neck down to the coccyx 2023 01:31:09,180 --> 01:31:07,659 and back up again I could never 2024 01:31:11,790 --> 01:31:09,190 understand what that was and I realized 2025 01:31:14,080 --> 01:31:11,800 that it wasn't a bone examine 2026 01:31:15,640 --> 01:31:14,090 it's my theory and it wasn't about 2027 01:31:17,200 --> 01:31:15,650 examination it wasn't the growth 2028 01:31:20,050 --> 01:31:17,210 examination for kids or anything like 2029 01:31:22,890 --> 01:31:20,060 that but basically it was a neurological 2030 01:31:25,150 --> 01:31:22,900 examination and they were in some way 2031 01:31:27,040 --> 01:31:25,160 dealing with the nerves the the 2032 01:31:28,240 --> 01:31:27,050 synthetic of the parasympathetic nervous 2033 01:31:31,630 --> 01:31:28,250 system I guess that runs down the 2034 01:31:34,090 --> 01:31:31,640 backbone and and those are the only that 2035 01:31:36,610 --> 01:31:34,100 one I think I'm right about reflux the 2036 01:31:39,310 --> 01:31:36,620 other one III hope I'm right about but 2037 01:31:41,110 --> 01:31:39,320 it's a good theory and in all the rest 2038 01:31:43,930 --> 01:31:41,120 we just we just don't know because they 2039 01:31:46,060 --> 01:31:43,940 don't tell us what it is and if you ask 2040 01:31:48,850 --> 01:31:46,070 AB duckies what is that machine for 2041 01:31:50,860 --> 01:31:48,860 you're asking them to sort of guess 2042 01:31:52,360 --> 01:31:50,870 you're saying I'll say well it's taking 2043 01:31:54,430 --> 01:31:52,370 a look at mine it's it's like an x-ray 2044 01:31:55,930 --> 01:31:54,440 machine it's looking in my ribs and the 2045 01:31:58,390 --> 01:31:55,940 answer is that they don't really know 2046 01:32:00,790 --> 01:31:58,400 what it is because you know we're still 2047 01:32:03,370 --> 01:32:00,800 assuming here these are physical events 2048 01:32:05,980 --> 01:32:03,380 with physical creatures doing physical 2049 01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:05,990 things and we don't know what's really 2050 01:32:09,490 --> 01:32:07,610 going on under the surface maybe there 2051 01:32:13,420 --> 01:32:09,500 are no machines maybe it's all generated 2052 01:32:15,550 --> 01:32:13,430 as some kind of hallucination caused by 2053 01:32:17,320 --> 01:32:15,560 an external source but the one thing I 2054 01:32:19,630 --> 01:32:17,330 wanted to focus on David and obviously 2055 01:32:22,300 --> 01:32:19,640 we can't answer that today your feeling 2056 01:32:24,970 --> 01:32:22,310 about hybridization so you feel that the 2057 01:32:27,910 --> 01:32:24,980 aliens or whatever they are want to 2058 01:32:30,100 --> 01:32:27,920 create beings that are part of us and 2059 01:32:33,310 --> 01:32:30,110 part of them aside from the genetic 2060 01:32:34,960 --> 01:32:33,320 complications for what purpose well we 2061 01:32:36,550 --> 01:32:34,970 don't know the ultimate purpose that's 2062 01:32:38,170 --> 01:32:36,560 that's something that we don't know and 2063 01:32:39,190 --> 01:32:38,180 once again at this for psychological we 2064 01:32:40,510 --> 01:32:39,200 wouldn't know the ultimate purpose 2065 01:32:41,860 --> 01:32:40,520 people would just make it up as long as 2066 01:32:44,170 --> 01:32:41,870 they and they make up everything else 2067 01:32:47,290 --> 01:32:44,180 but we don't know what the ultimate 2068 01:32:49,000 --> 01:32:47,300 purpose is but what these being say and 2069 01:32:52,180 --> 01:32:49,010 what I would say and what everybody 2070 01:32:55,710 --> 01:32:52,190 else's tells me and have been for years 2071 01:32:58,780 --> 01:32:55,720 and years is that is that this is a 2072 01:33:01,000 --> 01:32:58,790 program whereby ultimately everybody 2073 01:33:02,380 --> 01:33:01,010 will be together here and everybody will 2074 01:33:04,480 --> 01:33:02,390 be happy and it's going to be wonderful 2075 01:33:08,500 --> 01:33:04,490 and it's gonna be great and people have 2076 01:33:11,200 --> 01:33:08,510 seen scenes of love and I mention this 2077 01:33:13,900 --> 01:33:11,210 particular scene often times because 2078 01:33:15,760 --> 01:33:13,910 it's so reflective of it for example a 2079 01:33:16,930 --> 01:33:15,770 technique where people are standing 2080 01:33:18,190 --> 01:33:16,940 around a grill where they're talking 2081 01:33:19,660 --> 01:33:18,200 with they're playing ball and this and 2082 01:33:22,300 --> 01:33:19,670 that and then grassy area and all that 2083 01:33:24,459 --> 01:33:22,310 and the person will look at this sort of 2084 01:33:26,080 --> 01:33:24,469 screen like device on the wall and 2085 01:33:27,879 --> 01:33:26,090 no and they'll say can you tell the 2086 01:33:31,270 --> 01:33:27,889 difference between you and us and the 2087 01:33:32,709 --> 01:33:31,280 person says well no there what do you 2088 01:33:34,959 --> 01:33:32,719 mean tell the difference everybody is 2089 01:33:37,930 --> 01:33:34,969 the same well is that way taking us over 2090 01:33:40,419 --> 01:33:37,940 then I mean we're giving this this 2091 01:33:42,700 --> 01:33:40,429 paradise image saying you know what if 2092 01:33:45,219 --> 01:33:42,710 we develop these hybrid beings and they 2093 01:33:47,770 --> 01:33:45,229 take over the aliens will be in control 2094 01:33:51,370 --> 01:33:47,780 that's what it sounds like to me well it 2095 01:33:54,339 --> 01:33:51,380 doesn't sound good to me I must say the 2096 01:33:58,299 --> 01:33:54,349 problem here is that if this is a 2097 01:34:01,689 --> 01:33:58,309 neurologically based manipulation they 2098 01:34:04,779 --> 01:34:01,699 can control our ability to think to see 2099 01:34:06,759 --> 01:34:04,789 things and we can't control them and 2100 01:34:08,589 --> 01:34:06,769 that makes us not just second-class 2101 01:34:11,049 --> 01:34:08,599 citizens but a kind of second-class 2102 01:34:12,879 --> 01:34:11,059 species almost so it's sort of 2103 01:34:14,439 --> 01:34:12,889 frightening and I don't like to hear 2104 01:34:18,489 --> 01:34:14,449 these things and I've done tests and 2105 01:34:19,989 --> 01:34:18,499 hypnosis telling people now I don't want 2106 01:34:21,310 --> 01:34:19,999 you to tell me anything bad don't tell 2107 01:34:23,290 --> 01:34:21,320 me anything I don't want to hear I don't 2108 01:34:25,270 --> 01:34:23,300 want any or anything about this that or 2109 01:34:27,399 --> 01:34:25,280 they just don't tell to me and they'll 2110 01:34:29,259 --> 01:34:27,409 do an induction and then we go ahead and 2111 01:34:31,089 --> 01:34:29,269 they do they couldn't care less what I 2112 01:34:32,739 --> 01:34:31,099 told them they just tell me the same 2113 01:34:34,899 --> 01:34:32,749 thing that I was always happened to them 2114 01:34:37,540 --> 01:34:34,909 you know and I have not been able to 2115 01:34:39,189 --> 01:34:37,550 prove that these are in some way just 2116 01:34:40,899 --> 01:34:39,199 coming out of their own imaginations and 2117 01:34:43,870 --> 01:34:40,909 not what they're actually seeing what 2118 01:34:45,910 --> 01:34:43,880 equity though David the fact that so 2119 01:34:47,890 --> 01:34:45,920 many people are having this kind of 2120 01:34:49,330 --> 01:34:47,900 experience I mean obviously if we look 2121 01:34:52,000 --> 01:34:49,340 in Alien logic let's look at the 2122 01:34:54,009 --> 01:34:52,010 physical explanation the aliens come 2123 01:34:56,290 --> 01:34:54,019 here they want to find out more about us 2124 01:34:58,660 --> 01:34:56,300 they take a few genetic samples you know 2125 01:35:01,439 --> 01:34:58,670 we'll have male female left-handed 2126 01:35:04,569 --> 01:35:01,449 right-handed black white asian whatever 2127 01:35:07,239 --> 01:35:04,579 samples they need to take right this is 2128 01:35:09,580 --> 01:35:07,249 a model of the experimental model data 2129 01:35:12,009 --> 01:35:09,590 that we derived actually from so in the 2130 01:35:14,439 --> 01:35:12,019 early cases been a party that Hill and 2131 01:35:16,209 --> 01:35:14,449 donor vehicle Louis to certain extent 2132 01:35:18,640 --> 01:35:16,219 and and and and some of the other ones 2133 01:35:20,379 --> 01:35:18,650 from the 1970s I have found and that 2134 01:35:21,879 --> 01:35:20,389 this experimental model model is 2135 01:35:23,770 --> 01:35:21,889 suggestive that's a study that they're 2136 01:35:25,779 --> 01:35:23,780 learning about us that the evidence just 2137 01:35:27,580 --> 01:35:25,789 wasn't there over the long haul for that 2138 01:35:29,680 --> 01:35:27,590 that it was much more than that I mean 2139 01:35:31,450 --> 01:35:29,690 how many times do they have to take a 2140 01:35:33,009 --> 01:35:31,460 person to find out whether if they poked 2141 01:35:33,879 --> 01:35:33,019 them other needle he's gonna feel pain 2142 01:35:39,100 --> 01:35:33,889 you know 2143 01:35:41,140 --> 01:35:39,110 and so I found that it for me it did not 2144 01:35:43,060 --> 01:35:41,150 hold in what I long what I found was 2145 01:35:45,040 --> 01:35:43,070 something what was much more consistent 2146 01:35:46,390 --> 01:35:45,050 with a program and as a program there 2147 01:35:49,450 --> 01:35:46,400 the beginning of middle and an end and 2148 01:35:53,320 --> 01:35:49,460 was goal directed and that's where the 2149 01:35:54,729 --> 01:35:53,330 hybrids you know that began to intrude 2150 01:35:58,510 --> 01:35:54,739 in themselves more and more into 2151 01:36:00,700 --> 01:35:58,520 people's accounts I as as I realized 2152 01:36:03,430 --> 01:36:00,710 well this cannot be a study it doesn't 2153 01:36:05,709 --> 01:36:03,440 make any sense as a study however even 2154 01:36:06,939 --> 01:36:05,719 now most abduction researchers still use 2155 01:36:08,439 --> 01:36:06,949 the word experiment they're 2156 01:36:10,810 --> 01:36:08,449 experimenting on us it's very difficult 2157 01:36:13,660 --> 01:36:10,820 to sort of to get to shake free of those 2158 01:36:15,220 --> 01:36:13,670 of those statements but I just didn't 2159 01:36:17,350 --> 01:36:15,230 find it in the the evidence for I do 2160 01:36:19,209 --> 01:36:17,360 what have you seen Kevin in the studies 2161 01:36:21,669 --> 01:36:19,219 you've done about all this but it seemed 2162 01:36:24,760 --> 01:36:21,679 to me and you touched on it briefly was 2163 01:36:28,810 --> 01:36:24,770 that the experimentation being conducted 2164 01:36:31,990 --> 01:36:28,820 by the aliens seem to be very backward 2165 01:36:34,660 --> 01:36:32,000 they are able to travel interstellar 2166 01:36:39,310 --> 01:36:34,670 distances they have defeated that 2167 01:36:42,430 --> 01:36:39,320 tremendous technological problem that we 2168 01:36:43,930 --> 01:36:42,440 have not yet been able to defeat they 2169 01:36:47,100 --> 01:36:43,940 can travel these interstellar distances 2170 01:36:51,040 --> 01:36:47,110 they can get here and yet their genetic 2171 01:36:53,109 --> 01:36:51,050 experimentation is backward it doesn't 2172 01:36:56,379 --> 01:36:53,119 seem too advanced they're doing the same 2173 01:36:59,439 --> 01:36:56,389 thing today they did ten years ago and I 2174 01:37:02,919 --> 01:36:59,449 think Gina craft I don't remember who 2175 01:37:04,689 --> 01:37:02,929 pointed out that how many genetic 2176 01:37:07,290 --> 01:37:04,699 samples do they need if they're 2177 01:37:10,600 --> 01:37:07,300 collecting DNA why not just abduct the 2178 01:37:14,680 --> 01:37:10,610 hair behind barber shop and collect the 2179 01:37:17,640 --> 01:37:14,690 DNA that way why why are they doing it 2180 01:37:20,919 --> 01:37:17,650 in such an invasive manner 2181 01:37:25,080 --> 01:37:20,929 well it's theatrical too there seems to 2182 01:37:31,090 --> 01:37:28,020 ability of doing these sorts of things 2183 01:37:32,919 --> 01:37:31,100 how is it they're incapable of totally 2184 01:37:36,399 --> 01:37:32,929 releasing the memories of the abduction 2185 01:37:39,580 --> 01:37:36,409 that even somebody with very little 2186 01:37:42,490 --> 01:37:39,590 training in hypnosis is able to break 2187 01:37:44,169 --> 01:37:42,500 through the hypnotic blocks erected by 2188 01:37:46,419 --> 01:37:44,179 the aliens why are they unable to 2189 01:37:47,450 --> 01:37:46,429 completely erase to them memory 2190 01:37:49,630 --> 01:37:47,460 something that that 2191 01:37:52,220 --> 01:37:49,640 that our technology allows us to do 2192 01:37:54,020 --> 01:37:52,230 completely away from Emory's so 2193 01:37:57,770 --> 01:37:54,030 basically the screen memory may be the 2194 01:38:00,050 --> 01:37:57,780 entire abduction the screen memory may 2195 01:38:02,450 --> 01:38:00,060 not just be a surface memory of 2196 01:38:04,430 --> 01:38:02,460 something like an owl preceding an 2197 01:38:06,560 --> 01:38:04,440 abduction but the entire abduction 2198 01:38:10,130 --> 01:38:06,570 itself may be a screen memory of some 2199 01:38:14,030 --> 01:38:10,140 sort based the entire episode from there 2200 01:38:16,070 --> 01:38:14,040 from the mind of the capability of doing 2201 01:38:19,250 --> 01:38:16,080 that why do they they and they've been 2202 01:38:21,979 --> 01:38:19,260 studying us for 50 years 60 years 150 2203 01:38:24,050 --> 01:38:21,989 years they should be able have been able 2204 01:38:26,180 --> 01:38:24,060 to develop that capability by now and 2205 01:38:28,910 --> 01:38:26,190 yet they they seem incapable of doing it 2206 01:38:32,030 --> 01:38:28,920 well you know one of the basic most 2207 01:38:34,490 --> 01:38:32,040 basic problems no thing is to go right 2208 01:38:37,520 --> 01:38:34,500 back to the beginning and say why is it 2209 01:38:40,940 --> 01:38:37,530 that UFOs are seen sometimes and 2210 01:38:43,880 --> 01:38:40,950 sometimes they may register on radar but 2211 01:38:46,640 --> 01:38:43,890 they're not seen they can seemingly be 2212 01:38:50,360 --> 01:38:46,650 invisible some of the time and they're 2213 01:38:53,720 --> 01:38:50,370 highly visible some other time so why is 2214 01:38:56,240 --> 01:38:53,730 that why why don't they stay invisible 2215 01:38:58,550 --> 01:38:56,250 the whole time or whatever I mean there 2216 01:39:00,770 --> 01:38:58,560 are many many problems well you know 2217 01:39:03,350 --> 01:39:00,780 what you raise a point here but I want 2218 01:39:06,530 --> 01:39:03,360 to throw something out here the area of 2219 01:39:09,229 --> 01:39:06,540 theatricality that a lot of UFO 2220 01:39:11,570 --> 01:39:09,239 sightings may be strictly a show for us 2221 01:39:13,160 --> 01:39:11,580 to see it could be a diversion for 2222 01:39:15,979 --> 01:39:13,170 what's really going on I don't know a 2223 01:39:18,560 --> 01:39:15,989 show they light decision to either be 2224 01:39:21,229 --> 01:39:18,570 tracked or not they make the decision to 2225 01:39:24,229 --> 01:39:21,239 be seen or not yeah well I think that's 2226 01:39:29,630 --> 01:39:24,239 one of the huge problems in the whole 2227 01:39:31,610 --> 01:39:29,640 thing this is why it doesn't sound like 2228 01:39:34,220 --> 01:39:31,620 it's made up because it was made up by 2229 01:39:36,160 --> 01:39:34,230 people there gonna be a clear clear 2230 01:39:39,709 --> 01:39:36,170 answers and clear reasons for everything 2231 01:39:42,290 --> 01:39:39,719 one quick thing I like saying that why 2232 01:39:45,080 --> 01:39:42,300 there might be lots of abductions and 2233 01:39:46,790 --> 01:39:45,090 this is I mean one after they've already 2234 01:39:50,840 --> 01:39:46,800 got the program going why are they 2235 01:39:54,050 --> 01:39:50,850 continuing it and I just was working 2236 01:39:56,780 --> 01:39:54,060 with somebody whose grandchild seems to 2237 01:39:58,320 --> 01:39:56,790 have been abducted very small within the 2238 01:40:01,650 --> 01:39:58,330 past year anyway 2239 01:40:05,850 --> 01:40:01,660 let's figure here I spot has passed my 2240 01:40:08,160 --> 01:40:05,860 mind there seems to be there seems to be 2241 01:40:11,640 --> 01:40:08,170 a very strong alien interest in human 2242 01:40:15,870 --> 01:40:11,650 emotions and they seem to set up a sub 2243 01:40:18,900 --> 01:40:15,880 to describe many times so these little 2244 01:40:21,590 --> 01:40:18,910 scenarios inside the craft where the 2245 01:40:24,600 --> 01:40:21,600 advocacy has put through some kind of 2246 01:40:28,560 --> 01:40:24,610 problem puzzles fear whatever 2247 01:40:32,010 --> 01:40:28,570 and the aliens seem to be observing that 2248 01:40:34,380 --> 01:40:32,020 person is affair so to speak picking up 2249 01:40:37,650 --> 01:40:34,390 those emotions and perhaps they're 2250 01:40:40,500 --> 01:40:37,660 learning the emotions from what they can 2251 01:40:46,080 --> 01:40:40,510 learn from that individual and it's 2252 01:40:49,230 --> 01:40:46,090 impossible that an individual a lien 2253 01:40:52,470 --> 01:40:49,240 whatever we want to call them is in the 2254 01:40:55,140 --> 01:40:52,480 situation of a child trying to learn how 2255 01:40:56,610 --> 01:40:55,150 to ride a bike there's no way to learn 2256 01:40:59,280 --> 01:40:56,620 how to ride a bike because you couldn't 2257 01:41:01,110 --> 01:40:59,290 be told through instruction it's just a 2258 01:41:02,910 --> 01:41:01,120 very simple thing that the body has to 2259 01:41:04,650 --> 01:41:02,920 pick up the kind of balance that's 2260 01:41:07,730 --> 01:41:04,660 necessary to make the bike go and not 2261 01:41:11,130 --> 01:41:07,740 fall over and so it may be that 2262 01:41:14,280 --> 01:41:11,140 individual occupants of UFOs have to 2263 01:41:17,340 --> 01:41:14,290 each one one by one pick up a range of 2264 01:41:20,400 --> 01:41:17,350 human emotions from the advocate ease 2265 01:41:23,610 --> 01:41:20,410 that they're picking up it's possible 2266 01:41:25,410 --> 01:41:23,620 that that might explain some of the vast 2267 01:41:27,120 --> 01:41:25,420 numbers that are involved here which I 2268 01:41:27,570 --> 01:41:27,130 admit is a huge problem to the whole 2269 01:41:31,180 --> 01:41:27,580 thing 2270 01:41:37,510 --> 01:41:34,020 [Music] 2271 01:41:39,940 --> 01:41:37,520 58 years fate has provided true reports 2272 01:41:42,070 --> 01:41:39,950 of the strange and unknown fate brings 2273 01:41:43,810 --> 01:41:42,080 you the latest in all aspects of the 2274 01:41:47,380 --> 01:41:43,820 paranormal like angels and miracles 2275 01:41:49,960 --> 01:41:47,390 psychic phenomena ghosts UFOs and much 2276 01:41:52,690 --> 01:41:49,970 much more to receive your complimentary 2277 01:41:56,200 --> 01:41:52,700 fate magazine call now at one eight 2278 01:41:56,650 --> 01:41:56,210 hundred seven two eight two seven three 2279 01:42:00,040 --> 01:41:56,660 Oh 2280 01:42:03,130 --> 01:42:00,050 or visit their website at WWF at mag 2281 01:42:09,490 --> 01:42:03,140 comm that's one eight hundred seven two 2282 01:42:12,880 --> 01:42:09,500 eight two seven three zero or WWF a TEM 2283 01:42:14,810 --> 01:42:12,890 AG calm what are you waiting for your 2284 01:42:19,089 --> 01:42:14,820 fate awaits 2285 01:42:22,089 --> 01:42:19,099 [Music] 2286 01:42:23,470 --> 01:42:22,099 you've entered another dimension you've 2287 01:42:37,330 --> 01:42:23,480 entered our guests 2288 01:42:37,340 --> 01:42:41,580 [Music] 2289 01:42:46,560 --> 01:42:44,760 we have an ultimate abduction roundtable 2290 01:42:49,980 --> 01:42:46,570 on the power cast featuring Budd Hopkins 2291 01:42:51,840 --> 01:42:49,990 Kevin Randall dr. David Jacobs our guest 2292 01:42:54,090 --> 01:42:51,850 co-host is Christopher O'Brien who is 2293 01:42:58,130 --> 01:42:54,100 champing is a bit with the comment I am 2294 01:43:00,510 --> 01:42:58,140 indeed right now the sound of champing 2295 01:43:02,490 --> 01:43:00,520 you know one of the things that I've 2296 01:43:04,560 --> 01:43:02,500 kind of prided myself in my 2297 01:43:05,760 --> 01:43:04,570 investigative work out in the field is 2298 01:43:08,220 --> 01:43:05,770 coming up with new and creative 2299 01:43:10,830 --> 01:43:08,230 out-of-the-box ways of attempting to 2300 01:43:12,270 --> 01:43:10,840 gain better quality data one of the 2301 01:43:14,100 --> 01:43:12,280 things that's always puzzled me about 2302 01:43:17,010 --> 01:43:14,110 the abduction research is how come 2303 01:43:20,550 --> 01:43:17,020 nobody has come up with a way to somehow 2304 01:43:23,310 --> 01:43:20,560 gauge the the the types of experiences 2305 01:43:25,970 --> 01:43:23,320 that are going on ahead of time we know 2306 01:43:28,400 --> 01:43:25,980 of many cases where there's a pattern of 2307 01:43:31,020 --> 01:43:28,410 abduction that that's it's maybe not 2308 01:43:33,600 --> 01:43:31,030 predictable in terms of the actual night 2309 01:43:35,850 --> 01:43:33,610 that it's gonna occur but it seems that 2310 01:43:39,330 --> 01:43:35,860 there's that there's an opportunity a 2311 01:43:41,400 --> 01:43:39,340 window of opportunity here for us to for 2312 01:43:44,040 --> 01:43:41,410 instance WC Levengood came up with an 2313 01:43:47,340 --> 01:43:44,050 idea of putting curlers in a in an 2314 01:43:50,610 --> 01:43:47,350 abductees hair and and and putting on 2315 01:43:53,370 --> 01:43:50,620 sprouted seeds in in the curlers to to 2316 01:43:55,470 --> 01:43:53,380 try to analyze the types of energies 2317 01:43:58,500 --> 01:43:55,480 that obviously if this is a real 2318 01:44:00,330 --> 01:43:58,510 phenomenon there's got to be some exotic 2319 01:44:03,930 --> 01:44:00,340 types of energies that are being that 2320 01:44:07,200 --> 01:44:03,940 are being utilized and you know to put 2321 01:44:08,640 --> 01:44:07,210 underman ated seeds into small curlers 2322 01:44:10,290 --> 01:44:08,650 in someone's hair then you can then 2323 01:44:12,360 --> 01:44:10,300 analyze the seeds once the person has 2324 01:44:14,760 --> 01:44:12,370 come back how come nobody ever grabs 2325 01:44:16,590 --> 01:44:14,770 anything aboard a ship how can we don't 2326 01:44:20,340 --> 01:44:16,600 have any sort of physical evidence that 2327 01:44:21,600 --> 01:44:20,350 has been acquired by abductees as we're 2328 01:44:23,490 --> 01:44:21,610 talking hundreds and hundreds and 2329 01:44:25,620 --> 01:44:23,500 hundreds of cases and to my knowledge 2330 01:44:27,960 --> 01:44:25,630 there has never been a person that's 2331 01:44:30,750 --> 01:44:27,970 been able to grab something or come back 2332 01:44:33,180 --> 01:44:30,760 with some irrefutable evidence that they 2333 01:44:35,700 --> 01:44:33,190 actually were taken somewhere who would 2334 01:44:38,010 --> 01:44:35,710 like to take that one well I can I can 2335 01:44:39,450 --> 01:44:38,020 start and give it over to bud first of 2336 01:44:40,980 --> 01:44:39,460 all when people are taking our word the 2337 01:44:43,050 --> 01:44:40,990 odds eat the clothes are removed so if 2338 01:44:45,150 --> 01:44:43,060 they're gonna find something and hide it 2339 01:44:47,660 --> 01:44:45,160 there's only a few places almost 2340 01:44:51,140 --> 01:44:47,670 unthinkable where they can hide it and 2341 01:44:53,390 --> 01:44:51,150 they're also there they're under mental 2342 01:44:55,310 --> 01:44:53,400 control there it doesn't even occur to 2343 01:44:57,439 --> 01:44:55,320 them usually to take anything it's not 2344 01:44:59,300 --> 01:44:57,449 like they have consciousness of the fact 2345 01:45:00,890 --> 01:44:59,310 that they're being abducted and then and 2346 01:45:02,660 --> 01:45:00,900 they've got to find proof that just this 2347 01:45:05,120 --> 01:45:02,670 is a situation that's been happening to 2348 01:45:07,310 --> 01:45:05,130 them for years and years and and they're 2349 01:45:11,479 --> 01:45:07,320 their senses are blunted in essence 2350 01:45:13,760 --> 01:45:11,489 having said that I did try various 2351 01:45:15,830 --> 01:45:13,770 experiments early on with this 2352 01:45:19,430 --> 01:45:15,840 phenomenon and one of them was of 2353 01:45:21,379 --> 01:45:19,440 putting a radiation badge in a person's 2354 01:45:23,780 --> 01:45:21,389 nightgown and nobody would know the 2355 01:45:25,760 --> 01:45:23,790 difference and that this was a one that 2356 01:45:28,850 --> 01:45:25,770 that III subscribed to service where 2357 01:45:30,770 --> 01:45:28,860 they would read it and we we measure the 2358 01:45:31,850 --> 01:45:30,780 background radiation I mean we know 2359 01:45:33,439 --> 01:45:31,860 where the background radiation of where 2360 01:45:35,089 --> 01:45:33,449 she lived was so they would see if there 2361 01:45:37,430 --> 01:45:35,099 was any radiation on board the object 2362 01:45:39,800 --> 01:45:37,440 and she was abducted came back with the 2363 01:45:42,530 --> 01:45:39,810 radiation badge and I sent it to this 2364 01:45:44,180 --> 01:45:42,540 outfit in Rochester New York for a 2365 01:45:46,129 --> 01:45:44,190 reading we know that there probably 2366 01:45:48,979 --> 01:45:46,139 isn't any radiation what this would sort 2367 01:45:50,240 --> 01:45:48,989 of confirm that and I waited and waited 2368 01:45:52,040 --> 01:45:50,250 and waited and I didn't hear anything 2369 01:45:53,570 --> 01:45:52,050 and I finally started calling and I 2370 01:45:55,790 --> 01:45:53,580 couldn't get an answer and then finally 2371 01:45:58,070 --> 01:45:55,800 I've got the answer the company had gone 2372 01:45:59,479 --> 01:45:58,080 out of business taken my radiation badge 2373 01:46:00,760 --> 01:45:59,489 with him and that was the last I ever 2374 01:46:04,580 --> 01:46:00,770 heard of it 2375 01:46:06,520 --> 01:46:04,590 but but this is the other areas what dr. 2376 01:46:09,379 --> 01:46:06,530 Jenkins let me interject one thing here 2377 01:46:12,560 --> 01:46:09,389 Bravo for you to you for doing that 2378 01:46:15,140 --> 01:46:12,570 attempting to gather some statistical 2379 01:46:16,580 --> 01:46:15,150 evidence that way that's that's the kind 2380 01:46:18,439 --> 01:46:16,590 of thing that I've always been talking 2381 01:46:19,970 --> 01:46:18,449 about we need to think of these sorts of 2382 01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:19,980 things so we can gather the sort of 2383 01:46:24,820 --> 01:46:22,650 evidence that we need so Bravo for you 2384 01:46:28,339 --> 01:46:24,830 for giving that a try 2385 01:46:30,109 --> 01:46:28,349 we have no video tape well video tapes 2386 01:46:32,479 --> 01:46:30,119 are the first thing I ever tried and 2387 01:46:35,120 --> 01:46:32,489 I've had many many people sitting 2388 01:46:36,709 --> 01:46:35,130 underneath a video camera and the 2389 01:46:39,080 --> 01:46:36,719 problem with that I'm thinking about all 2390 01:46:41,390 --> 01:46:39,090 the field cameras out there now today 2391 01:46:43,459 --> 01:46:41,400 all the video tape we've got we've got 2392 01:46:44,990 --> 01:46:43,469 wonderful wonderful videotapes of 2393 01:46:48,020 --> 01:46:45,000 meteorite Falls 2394 01:46:49,939 --> 01:46:48,030 on my blog I actually have put a video 2395 01:46:51,649 --> 01:46:49,949 bar on there that has meteor falls on it 2396 01:46:53,149 --> 01:46:51,659 so you can watch these things we've got 2397 01:46:56,149 --> 01:46:53,159 security cameras all over the place 2398 01:46:58,070 --> 01:46:56,159 we've got police cars with cameras you 2399 01:47:01,910 --> 01:46:58,080 know we still don't have any videotape 2400 01:47:03,600 --> 01:47:01,920 right this is a very promising area of 2401 01:47:06,570 --> 01:47:03,610 research actually and 2402 01:47:08,520 --> 01:47:06,580 and I would like to do to do something 2403 01:47:09,930 --> 01:47:08,530 like that what you need to do is you 2404 01:47:13,470 --> 01:47:09,940 have to you have to have a videotape 2405 01:47:15,330 --> 01:47:13,480 trained on a person's residence and and 2406 01:47:17,250 --> 01:47:15,340 see if anything unusual happens in that 2407 01:47:18,810 --> 01:47:17,260 way now of course there would be no 2408 01:47:21,420 --> 01:47:18,820 abduction phenomenon if this phenomenon 2409 01:47:23,310 --> 01:47:21,430 would did not take place clandestinely 2410 01:47:25,200 --> 01:47:23,320 and when people say they're abducted 2411 01:47:27,030 --> 01:47:25,210 they'll go as but and I know our through 2412 01:47:29,310 --> 01:47:27,040 walls and ceilings and windows and so 2413 01:47:31,950 --> 01:47:29,320 forth and the problem is is that people 2414 01:47:33,810 --> 01:47:31,960 on the outside don't see that now maybe 2415 01:47:35,820 --> 01:47:33,820 they're cloaked maybe people are need to 2416 01:47:37,680 --> 01:47:35,830 turn away or maybe they're just not see 2417 01:47:39,060 --> 01:47:37,690 alive ah that's things that's attack 2418 01:47:41,220 --> 01:47:39,070 that I take that they're just invisible 2419 01:47:43,560 --> 01:47:41,230 in that that particular period is going 2420 01:47:46,020 --> 01:47:43,570 right to a solid object which makes no 2421 01:47:47,820 --> 01:47:46,030 sense whatsoever and once again if this 2422 01:47:49,470 --> 01:47:47,830 were psychological people just say they 2423 01:47:51,090 --> 01:47:49,480 want to walk through that they went into 2424 01:47:52,590 --> 01:47:51,100 the door of the door walked out you know 2425 01:47:54,300 --> 01:47:52,600 what I mean together with nefta but 2426 01:47:55,440 --> 01:47:54,310 these roadblocks to believability in 2427 01:47:57,690 --> 01:47:55,450 front of them by saying they went 2428 01:48:00,810 --> 01:47:57,700 through a closed wall or window but 2429 01:48:03,600 --> 01:48:00,820 anyway but that is something that really 2430 01:48:05,340 --> 01:48:03,610 needs that sense a very promising area 2431 01:48:07,740 --> 01:48:05,350 and I would like to see that I'd like to 2432 01:48:09,990 --> 01:48:07,750 see cameras trained on homes and 2433 01:48:12,060 --> 01:48:10,000 apartments not just on streets and on 2434 01:48:13,680 --> 01:48:12,070 businesses which is where anywhere where 2435 01:48:16,350 --> 01:48:13,690 the majority of cameras obviously are 2436 01:48:18,690 --> 01:48:16,360 and and maybe we can pick up something 2437 01:48:20,100 --> 01:48:18,700 that way and and we'd have to target 2438 01:48:22,080 --> 01:48:20,110 certain people who are out duck these 2439 01:48:25,350 --> 01:48:22,090 and we'd have to set up a camera 2440 01:48:28,380 --> 01:48:25,360 somewhere somehow but this I think this 2441 01:48:30,360 --> 01:48:28,390 is doable and I would I would definitely 2442 01:48:32,430 --> 01:48:30,370 like to have this happen this is good 2443 01:48:34,950 --> 01:48:32,440 you know the problem is is that you have 2444 01:48:36,870 --> 01:48:34,960 to remember doing abduction work is four 2445 01:48:40,280 --> 01:48:36,880 button for me all the money comes 2446 01:48:43,020 --> 01:48:40,290 directly out of our pockets and for 2447 01:48:44,430 --> 01:48:43,030 transcripts and things like that every 2448 01:48:47,250 --> 01:48:44,440 time a person comes into my house that 2449 01:48:49,800 --> 01:48:47,260 cost me a pretty penny on neither let's 2450 01:48:51,420 --> 01:48:49,810 charge anything we don't have a large 2451 01:48:53,670 --> 01:48:51,430 staff of people around us who are 2452 01:48:55,860 --> 01:48:53,680 willing to perform tasks we have no 2453 01:48:58,230 --> 01:48:55,870 funding from any institution or anything 2454 01:49:00,270 --> 01:48:58,240 like that in fact as an academic if you 2455 01:49:02,160 --> 01:49:00,280 do this work it's not a good career move 2456 01:49:04,230 --> 01:49:02,170 as I tell graduate students are 2457 01:49:05,970 --> 01:49:04,240 interested in this to speak you want to 2458 01:49:07,500 --> 01:49:05,980 stay as far away and this is as humanly 2459 01:49:09,300 --> 01:49:07,510 possible via I want to get a job in 2460 01:49:11,490 --> 01:49:09,310 academics so we're at a great 2461 01:49:13,950 --> 01:49:11,500 disadvantage and and the more help that 2462 01:49:16,140 --> 01:49:13,960 we can get the better it is and and it's 2463 01:49:17,100 --> 01:49:16,150 there's an awful lot of us smart people 2464 01:49:18,510 --> 01:49:17,110 out there who have 2465 01:49:20,280 --> 01:49:18,520 can put their minds together and figure 2466 01:49:22,770 --> 01:49:20,290 out ways to detect this that I don't 2467 01:49:24,570 --> 01:49:22,780 know yet and and I'm a great believer in 2468 01:49:26,490 --> 01:49:24,580 that absolutely yes you're left feel 2469 01:49:29,100 --> 01:49:26,500 question that occurred to me about the 2470 01:49:32,010 --> 01:49:29,110 hypnotic regression does it always have 2471 01:49:33,629 --> 01:49:32,020 to be done in person can you do this on 2472 01:49:36,209 --> 01:49:33,639 the phone or have you ever done on the 2473 01:49:38,250 --> 01:49:36,219 phone yes you know there's an awful lot 2474 01:49:39,660 --> 01:49:38,260 of people out there who don't live with 2475 01:49:42,570 --> 01:49:39,670 you know a little thousand miles away 2476 01:49:44,430 --> 01:49:42,580 from me and all that and I have done 2477 01:49:46,560 --> 01:49:44,440 phone hypnosis with people who I have 2478 01:49:48,419 --> 01:49:46,570 worked with and who have moved away and 2479 01:49:49,800 --> 01:49:48,429 I used to think to myself gosh I'm doing 2480 01:49:52,140 --> 01:49:49,810 this on the phone people will think I'm 2481 01:49:55,200 --> 01:49:52,150 completely crazy until I realized that 2482 01:49:57,870 --> 01:49:55,210 there's a huge psychology of phony of 2483 01:50:00,300 --> 01:49:57,880 gnosis phone therapy world out there 2484 01:50:02,250 --> 01:50:00,310 just for that reason that people can't 2485 01:50:05,580 --> 01:50:02,260 get to to a psychologist or psychiatrist 2486 01:50:08,879 --> 01:50:05,590 and so I was comforted by that the only 2487 01:50:10,290 --> 01:50:08,889 person who I never met who was this 2488 01:50:12,840 --> 01:50:10,300 woman who's been stalking me 2489 01:50:15,390 --> 01:50:12,850 unfortunately yeah and that that was a 2490 01:50:16,890 --> 01:50:15,400 mistake and then and I have to keep him 2491 01:50:19,020 --> 01:50:16,900 like a major problem there we other 2492 01:50:20,280 --> 01:50:19,030 person I've had sessions with first and 2493 01:50:22,140 --> 01:50:20,290 then they would move away and I would 2494 01:50:23,430 --> 01:50:22,150 still have some sessions on the phone 2495 01:50:26,189 --> 01:50:23,440 the other sessions aren't quite as good 2496 01:50:28,169 --> 01:50:26,199 and they're not as thorough but but 2497 01:50:29,700 --> 01:50:28,179 they're satisfactory for the for the 2498 01:50:31,470 --> 01:50:29,710 person who's who's remembering the 2499 01:50:34,050 --> 01:50:31,480 experience I ask one question since you 2500 01:50:35,970 --> 01:50:34,060 brought up without going into detail the 2501 01:50:38,609 --> 01:50:35,980 woman who's kind of stalking you or 2502 01:50:41,879 --> 01:50:38,619 going after you that person has released 2503 01:50:43,950 --> 01:50:41,889 tapes of these sessions are you aware of 2504 01:50:45,240 --> 01:50:43,960 to whether they've been edited that 2505 01:50:47,459 --> 01:50:45,250 you're actually hearing them or having 2506 01:50:50,100 --> 01:50:47,469 them bothered to hear them you know they 2507 01:50:53,070 --> 01:50:50,110 can't they have to been edited because 2508 01:50:55,770 --> 01:50:53,080 my hypnosis sessions with her lasted 2509 01:50:58,200 --> 01:50:55,780 from three to four hours so I don't know 2510 01:51:00,510 --> 01:50:58,210 how she can do that I have not seen I 2511 01:51:02,520 --> 01:51:00,520 have not gone through everything it's 2512 01:51:04,859 --> 01:51:02,530 it's too hard for me the sections that I 2513 01:51:05,910 --> 01:51:04,869 have heard have been edited and I have 2514 01:51:08,370 --> 01:51:05,920 not been able to go through all her 2515 01:51:11,550 --> 01:51:08,380 material you know one one piece at a 2516 01:51:13,529 --> 01:51:11,560 time but my god my senses and obviously 2517 01:51:16,290 --> 01:51:13,539 that has been very heavily 2518 01:51:18,779 --> 01:51:16,300 and that everything she has done is 2519 01:51:21,330 --> 01:51:18,789 tried to put me in a very bad light and 2520 01:51:24,029 --> 01:51:21,340 it's just a shame as I as I said before 2521 01:51:25,709 --> 01:51:24,039 is in a very very painful situation for 2522 01:51:28,200 --> 01:51:25,719 me and I don't know when it's gonna end 2523 01:51:29,790 --> 01:51:28,210 I have a feeling I'm in for the long 2524 01:51:33,209 --> 01:51:29,800 haul if they're made even by the rest of 2525 01:51:35,009 --> 01:51:33,219 my life actually so I think that people 2526 01:51:37,740 --> 01:51:35,019 should realize though that that's oh 2527 01:51:39,750 --> 01:51:37,750 there is another and very very different 2528 01:51:41,459 --> 01:51:39,760 side to the story that that they're not 2529 01:51:44,250 --> 01:51:41,469 hearing from her okay looking at 2530 01:51:46,439 --> 01:51:44,260 abduction research as a totality Kevan 2531 01:51:48,390 --> 01:51:46,449 Randall in the next few minutes can you 2532 01:51:50,279 --> 01:51:48,400 tell us where you think the best 2533 01:51:52,950 --> 01:51:50,289 approach could be taken to learn more 2534 01:51:55,339 --> 01:51:52,960 about what's going on I think we need as 2535 01:51:58,529 --> 01:51:55,349 you say look at the totality not only 2536 01:52:04,819 --> 01:51:58,539 understand that that the people coming 2537 01:52:08,160 --> 01:52:04,829 to dr. Jacobs are suffering and it's 2538 01:52:10,109 --> 01:52:08,170 clearly are but look at the things that 2539 01:52:12,569 --> 01:52:10,119 we might be able to do to learn more 2540 01:52:15,899 --> 01:52:12,579 about the abductions and it may be 2541 01:52:19,770 --> 01:52:15,909 simple things as gathering statistical 2542 01:52:21,450 --> 01:52:19,780 information we need to take a look at 2543 01:52:24,000 --> 01:52:21,460 the possibilities of the videotape 2544 01:52:27,270 --> 01:52:24,010 because everything is videotaped today 2545 01:52:28,740 --> 01:52:27,280 there are cameras everywhere and I just 2546 01:52:30,209 --> 01:52:28,750 pointed it the streets but they're 2547 01:52:32,189 --> 01:52:30,219 pointed all over the place so that if 2548 01:52:33,629 --> 01:52:32,199 something happens in a city you've 2549 01:52:35,370 --> 01:52:33,639 probably got three or four different 2550 01:52:37,020 --> 01:52:35,380 views of it that's what we see on law 2551 01:52:42,979 --> 01:52:37,030 and order by the way they always have 2552 01:52:45,839 --> 01:52:42,989 the cameras which show a final progress 2553 01:52:47,970 --> 01:52:45,849 27 cameras on the Pentagon during 9/11 2554 01:52:50,399 --> 01:52:47,980 but we need we need to look at all the 2555 01:52:52,859 --> 01:52:50,409 avenues available to us for research we 2556 01:52:55,049 --> 01:52:52,869 need to gather some good solid physical 2557 01:52:57,299 --> 01:52:55,059 evidence we have to understand that 2558 01:53:00,060 --> 01:52:57,309 hypnosis is not a pathway to the truth 2559 01:53:02,520 --> 01:53:00,070 that that people can confabulate under 2560 01:53:04,229 --> 01:53:02,530 under hypnosis there is a phenomenon 2561 01:53:06,270 --> 01:53:04,239 known as pleasing the operator where you 2562 01:53:09,240 --> 01:53:06,280 can subtly lead somebody under hypnosis 2563 01:53:11,459 --> 01:53:09,250 no matter how carefully you are to avoid 2564 01:53:13,290 --> 01:53:11,469 that but we have to look at all of those 2565 01:53:15,569 --> 01:53:13,300 sorts of things and we have to move 2566 01:53:18,060 --> 01:53:15,579 abduction research from case studies and 2567 01:53:19,859 --> 01:53:18,070 and that speaking as a researcher and 2568 01:53:22,560 --> 01:53:19,869 not a therapist but move it from case 2569 01:53:24,689 --> 01:53:22,570 studies into an arena where we can 2570 01:53:27,030 --> 01:53:24,699 gather some solid physical evidence and 2571 01:53:28,380 --> 01:53:27,040 find out exactly what is going on 2572 01:53:30,690 --> 01:53:28,390 but Hopkins what do you have to say 2573 01:53:33,510 --> 01:53:30,700 about the fugitive abduction research 2574 01:53:38,040 --> 01:53:33,520 well one quick thing about the videotape 2575 01:53:41,220 --> 01:53:38,050 the question of these things being 2576 01:53:43,440 --> 01:53:41,230 seeable these events abductions being 2577 01:53:45,300 --> 01:53:43,450 here ball or not whether they're 2578 01:53:49,260 --> 01:53:45,310 invisible one of the most important 2579 01:53:51,330 --> 01:53:49,270 things about the Linda Kokila case is 2580 01:53:53,940 --> 01:53:51,340 that this was a kid this is one instance 2581 01:53:55,620 --> 01:53:53,950 in which apparently the aliens were 2582 01:53:58,170 --> 01:53:55,630 showing off and let everybody see what 2583 01:54:00,660 --> 01:53:58,180 they were doing at 3:00 a.m. in 2584 01:54:03,030 --> 01:54:00,670 Manhattan and many people saw what they 2585 01:54:06,690 --> 01:54:03,040 were doing and saw people floating in 2586 01:54:09,630 --> 01:54:06,700 the air going up into the craft so you 2587 01:54:11,490 --> 01:54:09,640 know I've dealt with with witnesses to 2588 01:54:13,200 --> 01:54:11,500 that event even though it's lasted about 2589 01:54:15,930 --> 01:54:13,210 a minute a minute and a half something 2590 01:54:17,280 --> 01:54:15,940 like that so we know what would what 2591 01:54:19,830 --> 01:54:17,290 these things would look like if they 2592 01:54:20,790 --> 01:54:19,840 were seeable they're usually not seeable 2593 01:54:22,860 --> 01:54:20,800 and that's the point 2594 01:54:26,760 --> 01:54:22,870 the reason why we don't have video tapes 2595 01:54:29,600 --> 01:54:26,770 and people floating up to you opposed so 2596 01:54:34,910 --> 01:54:29,610 we might have a real problem making that 2597 01:54:40,260 --> 01:54:34,920 the I'm the present video systems work 2598 01:54:43,350 --> 01:54:40,270 but the point is as Kevin said hypnosis 2599 01:54:45,660 --> 01:54:43,360 is not a reliable gas is the truth 2600 01:54:48,210 --> 01:54:45,670 neither is just sitting down and having 2601 01:54:49,980 --> 01:54:48,220 a an interview with somebody under 2602 01:54:51,990 --> 01:54:49,990 normal circumstances which when it's a 2603 01:54:54,840 --> 01:54:52,000 cup of coffee in hand that isn't 2604 01:54:58,250 --> 01:54:54,850 necessarily necessarily fast truth 2605 01:55:01,860 --> 01:54:58,260 either in every case a person can 2606 01:55:03,840 --> 01:55:01,870 confabulate or be mixed up or be telling 2607 01:55:06,870 --> 01:55:03,850 the truth whether they're under a ptosis 2608 01:55:08,910 --> 01:55:06,880 or knowledge that gnosis so we have to 2609 01:55:10,890 --> 01:55:08,920 use every possible method and I agree 2610 01:55:13,440 --> 01:55:10,900 totally with the idea that we need to 2611 01:55:16,980 --> 01:55:13,450 get as much physical evidence which is 2612 01:55:19,230 --> 01:55:16,990 why I've gathered photographs of the 2613 01:55:21,690 --> 01:55:19,240 scoop marks on people and we've really 2614 01:55:24,870 --> 01:55:21,700 had two different people biopsied 2615 01:55:27,810 --> 01:55:24,880 by doctors to see what we can find out 2616 01:55:30,330 --> 01:55:27,820 about those scoop marks as a medical 2617 01:55:33,230 --> 01:55:30,340 thing and that's why the reason I have 2618 01:55:35,070 --> 01:55:33,240 been collecting over the years people's 2619 01:55:37,740 --> 01:55:35,080 drawings of 2620 01:55:40,530 --> 01:55:37,750 cymbals with if she inside crap I've now 2621 01:55:43,530 --> 01:55:40,540 got something like approaching 50 of 2622 01:55:46,310 --> 01:55:43,540 them different samples which match very 2623 01:55:49,650 --> 01:55:46,320 very heavily that's extremely valuable 2624 01:55:52,110 --> 01:55:49,660 physical evidence to me but I would like 2625 01:55:54,150 --> 01:55:52,120 to get some cameras an invitation for 2626 01:55:57,120 --> 01:55:54,160 him to send me a list of questions 2627 01:55:59,610 --> 01:55:57,130 issues that could be put into some kind 2628 01:56:08,100 --> 01:55:59,620 of a data form that could be filled out 2629 01:56:11,190 --> 01:56:08,110 by abductees Kevin is that a good idea 2630 01:56:12,990 --> 01:56:11,200 for you okay you know what we'll follow 2631 01:56:14,160 --> 01:56:13,000 up on that in a future discussion we 2632 01:56:14,700 --> 01:56:14,170 don't have more than a couple of minutes 2633 01:56:16,860 --> 01:56:14,710 left 2634 01:56:18,840 --> 01:56:16,870 so Kevin Randell tell our listeners 2635 01:56:20,730 --> 01:56:18,850 where they can find more the things that 2636 01:56:22,140 --> 01:56:20,740 you do and write about they can take a 2637 01:56:23,700 --> 01:56:22,150 look at my blog just known as a 2638 01:56:25,770 --> 01:56:23,710 different perspective you can type that 2639 01:56:29,030 --> 01:56:25,780 into your search engine or Kevin Randall 2640 01:56:31,800 --> 01:56:29,040 blog spot.com and you can you can see 2641 01:56:35,190 --> 01:56:31,810 what I'm talking about there I'll be 2642 01:56:38,820 --> 01:56:35,200 talking at the MUFON symposium this 2643 01:56:40,410 --> 01:56:38,830 coming July the main one I'm doing a 2644 01:56:42,960 --> 01:56:40,420 tribute to Len Stringfield in his 2645 01:56:47,190 --> 01:56:42,970 research at epic symposium so I'll be 2646 01:56:49,500 --> 01:56:47,200 there Leakey I may have to do that okay 2647 01:56:52,710 --> 01:56:49,510 where do we bother you dr. David Jacobs 2648 01:56:57,900 --> 01:56:52,720 well I have my website at UFO abduction 2649 01:56:59,340 --> 01:56:57,910 dot-com ww UFO abduction comm and of 2650 01:57:01,680 --> 01:56:59,350 course at Temple University where 2651 01:57:04,620 --> 01:57:01,690 they'll be for at least another year 2652 01:57:06,180 --> 01:57:04,630 anyway as retirement begins to loom 2653 01:57:08,040 --> 01:57:06,190 larger in my mind and seem more 2654 01:57:09,690 --> 01:57:08,050 attractive to me well I'm wondering 2655 01:57:11,220 --> 01:57:09,700 after this episode maybe you're ready to 2656 01:57:14,400 --> 01:57:11,230 leave right now and say I've had enough 2657 01:57:18,960 --> 01:57:14,410 of this stuff you're pretty close I have 2658 01:57:21,180 --> 01:57:18,970 to admit figured in we always want our 2659 01:57:23,250 --> 01:57:21,190 show to be in a mining place for people 2660 01:57:27,480 --> 01:57:23,260 to pursue oh right 2661 01:57:29,900 --> 01:57:27,490 but Hopkins did you do I could be 2662 01:57:35,310 --> 01:57:29,910 reached at our website and truthers 2663 01:57:40,200 --> 01:57:35,320 foundation.org very simple and i have a 2664 01:57:42,660 --> 01:57:40,210 new book which was a memoir called hard 2665 01:57:48,330 --> 01:57:42,670 life and ufos and it has a great deal 2666 01:57:52,330 --> 01:57:48,340 about how i was led into the subject by 2667 01:57:54,820 --> 01:57:52,340 people's other adventures that they told 2668 01:57:56,800 --> 01:57:54,830 me about and I found myself compelled to 2669 01:58:00,930 --> 01:57:56,810 look into them and I will also be 2670 01:58:03,540 --> 01:58:00,940 speaking at the conference 2671 01:58:05,830 --> 01:58:03,550 okay so I'll put you two together and 2672 01:58:07,050 --> 01:58:05,840 maybe set up some kind of discussion 2673 01:58:10,000 --> 01:58:07,060 that sounds interesting 2674 01:58:12,040 --> 01:58:10,010 Christopher O'Brien our guest co-host 2675 01:58:13,810 --> 01:58:12,050 what are you working on where can we 2676 01:58:17,490 --> 01:58:13,820 find were the things that you're doing 2677 01:58:23,370 --> 01:58:17,500 well we've just signed a deal for a 2678 01:58:26,950 --> 01:58:23,380 seven camera high-res internet-capable 2679 01:58:28,660 --> 01:58:26,960 triangulation coordinated surveillance 2680 01:58:31,210 --> 01:58:28,670 net of the San Luis Valley that'll be on 2681 01:58:34,020 --> 01:58:31,220 various cell towers and mountaintops 2682 01:58:36,940 --> 01:58:34,030 covering the beautiful San Luis Valley 2683 01:58:39,910 --> 01:58:36,950 24/7 it's probably America's hottest 2684 01:58:41,530 --> 01:58:39,920 spot for UFO sightings and it's a vision 2685 01:58:44,470 --> 01:58:41,540 that I've had for twenty years and it's 2686 01:58:47,020 --> 01:58:44,480 finally becoming a reality people can 2687 01:58:51,040 --> 01:58:47,030 visit my web site which is our strange 2688 01:58:53,200 --> 01:58:51,050 planet calm and want to thank gene and 2689 01:58:55,060 --> 01:58:53,210 our guests for a real enlightening show 2690 01:58:58,180 --> 01:58:55,070 I really I really learned a few things 2691 01:59:00,430 --> 01:58:58,190 and and I really do admire you know 2692 01:59:02,800 --> 01:59:00,440 people in this field having the courage 2693 01:59:05,080 --> 01:59:02,810 to get out and really do the heavy 2694 01:59:07,330 --> 01:59:05,090 lifting in this field what was really 2695 01:59:10,180 --> 01:59:07,340 nice is that we can have for people very 2696 01:59:12,880 --> 01:59:10,190 opinionated people here Chris O'Brien 2697 01:59:13,420 --> 01:59:12,890 Budd Hopkins dr. David Jacobs Kevin 2698 01:59:15,910 --> 01:59:13,430 Randall 2699 01:59:18,370 --> 01:59:15,920 and we can hopefully shed light on the 2700 01:59:19,930 --> 01:59:18,380 situation without a lot of heat except 2701 01:59:22,360 --> 01:59:19,940 if you live in a cold climate where we 2702 01:59:24,070 --> 01:59:22,370 need the heat so once again guys thank 2703 01:59:28,090 --> 01:59:24,080 you all for joining us this week on the 2704 01:59:33,280 --> 01:59:28,100 power cast thank you thank you I need 2705 01:59:46,819 --> 01:59:33,290 one well thanks for having me it was